llap Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 A lot of mentally ill people self medicate with alcohol precisely because the mental health service is so appallingly lacking here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thommo2010 Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 A lot of mentally ill people self medicate with alcohol precisely because the mental health service is so appallingly lacking here. what's the answer llap? it seems these days everyone has some form of mental illness whether it be alcoholism anxiety or depression. fact is there is not enough nurses/soctors/psychiatrists on the island for the demand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmanx Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 A lot of mentally ill people self medicate with alcohol precisely because the mental health service is so appallingly lacking here. what's the answer llap? it seems these days everyone has some form of mental illness whether it be alcoholism anxiety or depression. fact is there is not enough nurses/soctors/psychiatrists on the island for the demand You answered your own question...invest in mental health support services. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thommo2010 Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 A lot of mentally ill people self medicate with alcohol precisely because the mental health service is so appallingly lacking here. what's the answer llap? it seems these days everyone has some form of mental illness whether it be alcoholism anxiety or depression. fact is there is not enough nurses/soctors/psychiatrists on the island for the demand You answered your own question...invest in mental health support services. invest with what? we are constantly told the Island has no money so where will this cash come from to spend on more mental health nurses etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmanx Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 A lot of mentally ill people self medicate with alcohol precisely because the mental health service is so appallingly lacking here. what's the answer llap? it seems these days everyone has some form of mental illness whether it be alcoholism anxiety or depression. fact is there is not enough nurses/soctors/psychiatrists on the island for the demand You answered your own question...invest in mental health support services. invest with what? we are constantly told the Island has no money so where will this cash come from to spend on more mental health nurses etc? Maybe start with government salaries and work from there. The money is there, its just getting to the right places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Trumps Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 For once I am with notwell on this. There is some jumping to conclusions going on that appears unjustified. The first is that having a mental illness equates to lacking mental capacity. That is not true. The two do not coincide, except in a few cases. "Insanity" is a defence and indicates lack of capacity to make decisions and to form the necessary mental element, or intention, to commit a crime, any mental illness that falls short of the legal definition of "insanity" is not a defence and could only be used as mitigation. There is also an second assumption that the defendant was compulsorily detained at Grainagh Court, but the report, right or wrong, doesn't say that. A lot of the people at GC are there as voluntary patients, either in or out. But the fact they may be being treated under a section order does not mean that they are incapable of knowing what they are doing and that it is wrong. very few patients lose their decision making capacity. They are being treated. You wouldn't assume that someone being treated for a physical illness lost capacity. The police, social workers and medical/nursing staff can have a very difficult time when dealing with challenging people, with illnesses, addictions etc. Each case is no doubt decided on its merits, whether to prosecute, or not, whether to section or not, remove to a place of safety or not. Hopefully it is proportionate to what has happened and what is needed. I've no idea why this case was taken to court, I wasn't involved, or why the sentence was imposed, but I can think of several good reasons why it might have been. Say the person had a history of poor family circumstances, addictions, self harm, personality disorder but was not ill enough to be detained, but in the community did not follow treatment plans. Well a probation order could assist in organising somewhere to live, regular meetings, ensuring attendance a treatment appointments. Anyone 'sectioned' is highly unlikely to be of 'sound mind & body' JW No, if they are sectioned they are either detained for assessment ( section 2 ) or treatment ( section 3 ) but the fact of being sectioned does not mean they lose mental capacity or lose the ability to control their actions and know the difference between right and wrong. Very few patients who are sectioned lack capacity. On the other hand many people who lack capacity never get sectioned or receive inpatient treatment at Grianagh Court. But I do agree it's very unfortunate that things like this come into the public domain. I'd personally question the public interest in prosecuting and the possible effect on the health of the defendant. A psychiatrist is unlikely to bring anyone in under a section order unless they are a danger to themselves or others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 Donald, that isn't the test. But there you go. It's part of the test. And danger to self or others adds nothing to the mental capacity debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Trumps Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 A lot of mentally ill people self medicate with alcohol precisely because the mental health service is so appallingly lacking here. Quality of life even There is high alcohol use and above average rates of male suicide here, I suspect because of our 'top down' political culture men particularly don't feel involved in decision making or in control of their lives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 invest with what? we are constantly told the Island has no money so where will this cash come from to spend on more mental health nurses etc? Maybe start with government salaries and work from there. The money is there, its just getting to the right places. Spot on. But not just in this sector. It's every department. They want their ton of flesh before anything else gets a look in. And despite all of the so called cuts we are not saving anything on staffing and pension costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chutney Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 Invest with what? we are constantly told the Island has no money so where will this cash come from to spend on more mental health nurses etc? By cutting the non essential NHS services might be a start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notwell Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 It is if both are aware of what they are doing. Trying to excuse the actions of someone with some form of mental illness as definitely not being their fault (just because they are mentally ill) is weak. Really? You are comparing mental illness to being drunk? And what led you to that stunning observation? Your years of training and experience? No. I'm comparing people taking responsibility for their own actions rather than making the assumption they cannot be at fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notwell Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 A lot of mentally ill people self medicate with alcohol precisely because the mental health service is so appallingly lacking here. Quality of life even There is high alcohol use and above average rates of male suicide here, I suspect because of our 'top down' political culture men particularly don't feel involved in decision making or in control of their lives What above average rates are those? According to what I can find the rate in the UK is about 13 per 100000. Of which about 10 are men. Which would mean with a population of circa 85000 we would have 8 to 9 to be the same. I don't think we are seeing a male suicide on island that many times a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarne Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 Notwell: I think it is higher here, it's just not reported. The last figures I found were http://m.iomtoday.co.im/news/isle-of-man-news/suicide-rates-in-the-spotlight-1-1740187 and were particularly bad, and that was in the "good" years. I don't believe it's a lack of spending on mental health, it's people being unhappy with their lot in life. It's a worldwide problem for young men particularly, not something the Isle of Man can solve by more spending. Taking responsibility for your happiness is something that is very hard to learn for some people, and not trying to hide it in a bottle or pills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notwell Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 15 year old statistics wouldn't really convince me. I would be surprised if the IoM is any worse than the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 A lot of mentally ill people self medicate with alcohol precisely because the mental health service is so appallingly lacking here.what's the answer llap? it seems these days everyone has some form of mental illness whether it be alcoholism anxiety or depression. fact is there is not enough nurses/soctors/psychiatrists on the island for the demand You answered your own question...invest in mental health support services. invest with what? we are constantly told the Island has no money so where will this cash come from to spend on more mental health nurses etc? Ah yeah, there's no money so give up on people who need help. Maybe if there is a little bit of money we could employ more police and prison officers and lock these fuckers up. That'll snap them back to reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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