SamHandwich Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 It's worth noting that the subvention is possibly not the only support that IOM Meats receive from the Government. See the following extract from the 2015 report 'Livestock pricing by Isle of Man Meats. Equivalency?' by Dr Steve Webster. This report is referenced in DEFA FOI response so I assume it's accepted as correct. Of course this information is from 2015 so might not apply after that date. There is a historically close relationship between the Manx Government and Isle of Man Meats, which is summarised as follows: The abattoir plant is owned by the Department of Infrastructure (DoI), to whom market rate rental is paid by Isle of Man Meats. A discount of 50% is applied for prompt payment. DEFA provide hygiene inspection, carcase classification and Official Veterinary services to the abattoir. Inspection and Official Veterinary services are designed to protect human health as well as animal welfare in lairage and at slaughter. Capital funding in the region of £2 million has been provided in 2014-2015 to renew and update the abattoir facilities, although it should be noted that these facilities remain the property of the DoI. These capital works are intended to extend the life of the current plant until at least 2029 and to provide reduced operating costs of at least £105,000 per year. The Treasury have provided assistance to Isle of Man Meats through the Agricultural Development Fund (now known as the Agriculture and Forestry Fund), which was intended to facilitate the transition away from production-related support. This funding (usually termed ‘subvention’) has been provided in the amounts of £900,000 (2013), £610,000 (2014), £480,000 (2015) and is projected to be £380,000 (2016). There is no guarantee that subvention will continue after 2016. Waste disposal services are provided by the DoI through the Isle of Man’s Animal Waste Processing Plant. This plant takes abattoir waste along with fallen livestock and butchers’ waste and renders it to produce tallow, blood and bone meal. The tallow is used in place of heating oil as an energy source for the plant, and the blood and bone meal produced is burned in the energy from waste plant. A small charge is made to the abattoir for waste disposal, which is provided below-cost. Table 1. Government support for the abattoir, 2015 Department Service Estimated annual cost DEFA(1) Official Veterinary services £45,000 DEFA(1) Hygiene inspection £80,000 DEFA(1) Carcase classification £30,000 DoI Rent discount £120,000 DoI Waste disposal £318,693 Treasury Subvention £480,000 Total £1,073,693 Note: (1) Approval may be sought from Tynwald in the last quarter of 2015 to introduce charging for these services with the Meat Hygiene, Inspection and Grading (Fees) (No.2) Order 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted January 11, 2017 Author Share Posted January 11, 2017 FFS 50% discount for prompt payment of rent?! How much more is there to come? What would the losses be if they were having to pay a commercial rate?! Must speak to my mortgage lender.... ETA "There is a historically close relationship between the Manx Govt (aka the farmers) and IoM Meats (aka the farmers)". As can be seen by the commerciality of this arrangement...taxpayers paying through the nose for production of meat which a fair percentage of those taxpayers can barely afford to buy, regularly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notwell Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 FFS 50% discount for prompt payment of rent?! How much more is there to come? What would the losses be if they were having to pay a commercial rate?! Must speak to my mortgage lender.... ETA "There is a historically close relationship between the Manx Govt (aka the farmers) and IoM Meats (aka the farmers)". As can be seen by the commerciality of this arrangement...taxpayers paying through the nose for production of meat which a fair percentage of those taxpayers can barely afford to buy, regularly. What is the correct commercial rent then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Are a bunch of farmers the best people to run and market the meat operation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlo Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 FFS 50% discount for prompt payment of rent?! How much more is there to come? What would the losses be if they were having to pay a commercial rate?! Must speak to my mortgage lender.... ETA "There is a historically close relationship between the Manx Govt (aka the farmers) and IoM Meats (aka the farmers)". As can be seen by the commerciality of this arrangement...taxpayers paying through the nose for production of meat which a fair percentage of those taxpayers can barely afford to buy, regularly. What is the correct commercial rent then? What it was before they applied a 50% discount? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted January 11, 2017 Author Share Posted January 11, 2017 FFS 50% discount for prompt payment of rent?! How much more is there to come? What would the losses be if they were having to pay a commercial rate?! Must speak to my mortgage lender.... ETA "There is a historically close relationship between the Manx Govt (aka the farmers) and IoM Meats (aka the farmers)". As can be seen by the commerciality of this arrangement...taxpayers paying through the nose for production of meat which a fair percentage of those taxpayers can barely afford to buy, regularly. What is the correct commercial rent then? The rent before a 50% discount is applied, taxpayer funded, ultimately. Perhaps you can advise of any other commercial rental arrangements that offer a 50% discount for on-time payment? Strand Street perhaps? Any industrial units anywhere? Because I can't think of or recall any. And certainly not for the running up of £1.2M operational losses. To be funded again by the taxpayer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asitis Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Seems to me the Countryside Care Scheme, if you remove the farmers who are actually farming and who need the help (which I am all in favour of) , is a way of paying landowners to look after their own property ! If my analogy is even a little true, then it is utter nonsense when other more pressing activities need funding. It seems to me if they wish to let their land run to wild then all the better for wildlife. Do all the equestrian enterprises on agricultural land receive subsidy ? There does appear to be some extrapolation of what farming grants were introduced for going on, anything to do with composition of our government for many years ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Trumps Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Certainly Tynwald members receiving large sums annually in 'agricultural' grants from the hard-pressed public purse, including LegCo's CM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notwell Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Certainly Tynwald members receiving large sums annually in 'agricultural' grants from the hard-pressed public purse, including LegCo's CM Can you be more specific - what huge sums? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hboy Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Certainly Tynwald members receiving large sums annually in 'agricultural' grants from the hard-pressed public purse, including LegCo's CM Can you be more specific - what huge sums? Some of the amounts were published quite recently. Quayle himself got more than £50k pa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notwell Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 FFS 50% discount for prompt payment of rent?! How much more is there to come? What would the losses be if they were having to pay a commercial rate?! Must speak to my mortgage lender.... ETA "There is a historically close relationship between the Manx Govt (aka the farmers) and IoM Meats (aka the farmers)". As can be seen by the commerciality of this arrangement...taxpayers paying through the nose for production of meat which a fair percentage of those taxpayers can barely afford to buy, regularly. What is the correct commercial rent then? Any commercial estate agent will tell them that. Then they get a 50% discount. It's not commercial is it? Not by any stretch of the imagination. The point I was getting at is that it depends if the quoted rent is actually fair and relevant. It might well be that £120k a year is actually where the rent should be at . IF that was the case, then what they would have is a correct level rent with huge penalties for not paying on time. In this case double. In the wider picture it is hard to see the answer to the problem really. It is clear that the sums involved make it unviable as a commercial operation and I assume that is because there are fixed costs which simply are not going to get covered at the current volume or price. The solution of course is to charge 3 times as much and pass that on the end user. Alternatively we have no facilities here and send everything away. I'm not sure if that is either possible or practical. If the entire thing was in private hands it would be significantly more expensive. I just see it was an unavoidable cost really and the price we pay for having control of our own slaughtering process. As an island we have a few of these types of economy of scale challenges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Trumps Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 I stand to be corrected but I believe Globetrotter and his associated companies received over £115,000 for the last year for which figures were released - 2015 I think Given that he leases out his farms apparently, it's hard to understand quite why he needs the cash With Tynwald expenses etc, he may even achieve over £200,000 from the public purse this year Is he the first Chief Minister to become a millionaire from government grant aid alone I wonder? Anyway, Grand Moff Bernard has suggested that means testing be introduced for 'agricultural' grants - which is a jolly good idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piebaps Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Certainly Tynwald members receiving large sums annually in 'agricultural' grants from the hard-pressed public purse, including LegCo's CM Can you be more specific - what huge sums? https://www.gov.im/media/1353650/iom-government-accounts-dark-blue-book-2015-16.pdf Page 77 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxy Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 I agree with self sufficiency and not being reliant on other countries for food or drink whatever that may be. if less meat is being slaughtered year after year and the same volume of meat is being sold on the island, then there's bound to be a negative balance somewhere along the line. Propping this up with subsidies is fine in the short term providing that the business increases it's profits, but this does not seem the case. Not sure what can be done with the exception that all meat products sold in IOM shops have a small surcharge added which is paid into whatever Government Department/slaughterhouse with the exception of any meat slaughtered in the meat factory which is exempt from the surcharge. Downfall - Meat costs will increase and purchasers of meat would pay the price. It was a thinly thought out suggestion and it might please some, but it won't please all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piebaps Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 It was a thinly thought out suggestion and it might please some, but it won't please all Perhaps if it was thinly sliced it may appeal to vegetarians too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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