UK Establishment exposed

[P.K.]

55 minutes ago, woolley said:

It is not necessary to support any group to be able to discern cause and effect. You just need a functioning brain to observe and comprehend the course of history taking place before your eyes.

Unfortunately it would appear that some brains function rather better than others....

I view it as a pendulum.

Stake in the ground take the last decade.

In 2008 the Muslim population of the UK was at 2m or 3.3% of the population.

The 2011 census put it at 2.8m.

The latest estimate is 4.1m or 6.3% of the population. A growing minority yes but still very much a minority.

In 2016 IPSOS Mori did a "perception" survey of the man in the street. The results were not surprising to me at any rate:

"British people were especially far from the mark when asked what proportion of the UK population is Muslim. The real answer is just one in twenty – but Britons believe it to be almost one in six!"

That large error tells me that they are either not very good at observing or that their brains are not very good at functioning or most likely both. I personally think that although still very much a minority Muslims are clearly very much a vociferous minority. This has inevitably lead to getting plenty of stick from the most right-wing press in Europe who will happily fan the flames of hatred if their marketing tells them it's what their readers want to hear.

Now the folks I know in the UK are very much "live and let live" however there are limits. If the Muslim minority keep pushing the majority on Muslim issues, such as dress in schools and so forth then they are effectively pushing the pendulum in one direction. In my experience the further you push that pendulum one way the further it's going to end up swinging back the other way when released. Possibly into extremist behaviour. I think we're starting to see that now in the extreme groups springing up. The murderer of Jo Cox, Thomas Mair, apparently was a supporter of all sorts of right-wing extremist nutters and attended rallies like the NF, EDL, BNP and so on. After all, there seems to be so many of them these days I should imagine they're interchangeable!

But if the Robinsons of this world think their EDL's are going to do anyone any good then they really are in La-La Land.

 

[woolley]

It depends where you live, PK, because the distribution is uneven. If you are observing in certain districts of Leicester or Tower Hamlets, or some of the Lancashire and Yorkshire towns and cities you could be forgiven for thinking you were somewhere in Asia. There are areas where the percentage is between one in one and one in two, let alone one in six. The growing problem is where these segregated enclaves interface with the world outside. They are simmering cauldrons of mistrust that periodically boil over into open hostility and violence that often goes unreported. Clearly, you have no experience whatsoever of this, but you claim superior intellect over those who do.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_Kingdom

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_the_European_Union_by_Muslim_population

I find it depressingly predictable that you would look at the broad national percentage and simple-mindedly conclude that all is well. It is also de rigueuer for a Guardian reading Liberal such as yourself to regard anyone with a dissenting view as not having the power of cognition. Sometimes it can be salutary to confront your own opinions and interrogate yourself about them.

There is though one sentence in your post that stands out as almost prescient: In my experience the further you push that pendulum one way the further it's going to end up swinging back the other way when released. I totally agree, and it will swing back high with a great deal of force. This is what we should be concerned about because civil strife does not discriminate.

[doc.fixit]

....well said Wooley, I have to visit my son in the West Midlands of UK in a few weeks, Lye and Wollescote to be precise. In the last 40 years of visits we have seen the gradual taking over of that largish area by Asians. I will guarantee that you can travel for at least two miles and not see a white face at all. My son teaches and in his current class there is not a single white face, the only non Asians are a Chinese Pole and a West Indian. Ok, they may all be British but the mosques, shops and garb are anything but indigenous British..........sooooo, non- racial comments just a factual report that can be verified by anyone who visits...............make of it what you will............Oh, and as for areas of greater London, wow!...........

[pongo]

17 minutes ago, doc.fixit said:

....well said Wooley, I have to visit my son in the West Midlands of UK in a few weeks, Lye and Wollescote to be precise. In the last 40 years of visits we have seen the gradual taking over of that largish area by Asians. I will guarantee that you can travel for at least two miles and not see a white face at all. My son teaches and in his current class there is not a single white face, the only non Asians are a Chinese Pole and a West Indian. Ok, they may all be British but the mosques, shops and garb are anything but indigenous British..........sooooo, non- racial comments just a factual report that can be verified by anyone who visits...............make of it what you will............Oh, and as for areas of greater London, wow!...........

So what?

[woolley]

1 minute ago, pongo said:

So what?

What more do you need to know?

[homarus]

9 hours ago, P.K. said:

Robinson is a xenophobic rabble-rouser who heads up a racist ultra right-wing group of nutters one of whom murdered Jo Cox MP.

Anyone who supports them in any way, shape or form is completely delusional.

Robinson stepped back from EDL years ago after  ,in his own words "It was infiltrated by racist elements!  His beef is with Islam which as far as I'm aware is not a race.

 He also has no connection with the Lunatic who killed Joe Cox that has been proven unless you know better .

 I hate say it PK but your posts are almost " Woody fact"  like in composition today and lazily typical of the so called  Intellectual left !!

[doc.fixit]

1 hour ago, pongo said:

So what?

.........it rather supports Wooley's comment...........................have you ever experienced a similar situation? ............Maybe you believe what you want from selective reading or discussion with others of your belief?...............My eyes don't lie, I have seen the ghettos and taken over areas, maybe you believe that's fine?.............I don't believe it's a good situation for any of the British population......

 

Oh yes, before you play the racist card, my uncle, my cousins, my in-laws and some of my grand children and my nieces and nephews were  not born in England nor in the Isle of Man but in Jamaica, Denmark, Australia, Hungary, Yugoslavia and France and I love them all equally................

 

I have nothing else to say on the subject...........

[pongo]

23 minutes ago, doc.fixit said:

Oh yes, before you play the racist card

I accept your apology in advance.

[woody2]

london will be mainly muslim by 2030 uk by 2050.....

the muslim birth rate is 8.1.....

[dilligaf]

12 hours ago, P.K. said:

If you have any real evidence that those of a different race, colour or creed than the majority means getting preferential treatment in our justice system then please share.

Of course one obvious difference is that these folks can "play the race card" and being scumbags that's exactly what they'll do. However that shouldn't make a difference to the outcome of a trial unless idiots like Robinson let it. But, of course, the police are ever mindful of this and have to act accordingly because they want those responsible for these dreadful crimes locked up as much as anyone else does.

 

Your second sentence answers the first .

[quilp]

The best can be said of Tommy Robinson's arrest and sentence is the global media attention it has received. Had he not been collared it would've been forgotten by Monday, except for the replays on youtube. Around 10,000 people watched the live stream, locals were shaking his hand, cheerin him on, taking selfies, beeping their car-horns in support as he traipsed up and down the pavement outside the court. I had to watch the whole of the video, right up to his arrest. It made interesting viewing in many ways.

The judge in the case had ruled previously that there was to be a general press black-out so Robinson, in the eyes of the law, is guilty as charged. He was not singled-out. Robinson does ask his two brothers-in-arms whether he might get lifted, right at the start of the video and a couple of times in the process, so he must've had an idea it was a possibility. At one point, and moments before his arrest, the judge had come to the window of the courthouse to observe what was going down as the live-stream was shown to him simultaneously. The defendents also appeared at the windows, drawing a threatening thumb across their throats in familiar gesture. As they were entering the court, a couple of the defendents made threats to kill Robinson, one declaring that Robinson, "fucks his mothers pussy" or words to that effect. Later on, another defendent shoves Robinson, in full view of the police but this aggressive action was ignored. Robinson then asked the copper if it had been he who'd pushed the defendent would he have been arrested? The cop grunts the affirmative, Robinson giggles into the camera with the perceived irony.

Whatever you might think of Tommy Robinson it has to be said the lad has bottle. Some of his observations and dialogue about this grooming case (and the scores of others; past, present and to come), draw valid points pertaining to the conduct of the authorities, historic and current, and the appalling delay in bringing these criminals to justice.

It is a national scandal, thoroughly underplayed.

There have been recent urgent calls by muslim Conservative MP, Baroness Warsi, et al, for a enquiry concerning alleged 'islamophobia' shown by the Conservatives and other politicans, without being specific or naming-names, but demanding an enquiry, nevertheless. This, the same Baroness who fiercely opposed calls for an enquiry into muslim grooming-gangs in the aftermath of Rotherham and Rochdale, claiming victimhood that muslims were being unfairly targeted thus further marginalised.

Maajid Nawaz, founder of the think-tank 'Quilliam' and former member of the radical pan-islamist political organisation, 'Hizb ut Tahir' (stated aim to create an "islamic world"), dryly commented on Robinson's swift arrest and conviction: "... I just wish these young girls had seen justice served for them as fast as the judge served Tommy Robinson justice in this case."

So Robinson is guilty as charged under the law but the media attention Robinson's arrest and incarceration has garnered for his cause couldn't have been imagined.

Or could it..?

[pongo]

26 minutes ago, quilp said:

There have been recent urgent calls by muslim Labour MP, Baroness Warsi, et al, for a enquiry concerning alleged 'islamophobia'

Baroness Warsi is a Conservative member of the House of Lords. Not a Labour MP. 

Can you justify the claim you are making about her? That she:

26 minutes ago, quilp said:

fiercely opposed calls for an enquiry into muslim grooming-gangs in the aftermath of Rotherham and Rochdale, claiming victimhood that muslims were being unfairly targeted thus further marginalised.

The evidence seems to be that she has for many years been at the forefront of highlighting many of the issues.

[dilligaf]

3 hours ago, woody2 said:

london will be mainly muslim by 2030 uk by 2050.....

the muslim birth rate is 8.1.....

This was nearly 50 years ago,

 

[quilp]

37 minutes ago, pongo said:

Baroness Warsi is a Conservative member of the House of Lords. Not a Labour MP.

Of course, my bad. Corrected.

Whether it was on Question Time, The Big Question or Daily Politics I cannot recall but, around the time she had resigned from the party, her view was along the lines of believing that any enquiry into Rochdale/Rotherham would affect the perception of muslim communities in those towns and taken advantage of by Right-Wing groups.

You are correct that the Baroness has often been at the forefront of pushing ahead with reform but in this case her main concerns didn't initially lean toward the abused. Though she was probably correct about an enquiry playing into the hands of greasy islamophobes.

[pongo]

8 minutes ago, quilp said:

Corrected.

No. Still wrong currently.

And your criticism of her seems to have gone from she "fiercely opposed calls for an enquiry"  to you can't remember where you heard her speaking.

Perhaps it was someone else you saw on the television - given that you don't even seem to be sure who she is.