When will the lies stop?

[Neil Down]

8 minutes ago, woolley said:

Given the political decision re the trams had been taken I don't see that the schedule of work would have been very different whether the trams ran in 2019 or not. 

The main problem lay with the decision. They should have been laid on the promenade walkway with the gardens narrowed slightly. They are from a bygone age and whilst I don't particularly want rid of them, I don't want them trotting down the middle of a main arterial road either

[Declan]

27 minutes ago, hissingsid said:

There has been in the past, tourist advertising of the steam railway, the electric trams and the horse trams if groups had booked on this expectation perhaps the year before then although perhaps not a contract as such it could have caused difficulties for the Company's dealing with the travel arrangements.   This is only the only way I can figure it out.  

Easy fix to that - apologise to those customers impacted and give them a day's free bus/railway pass. The buses and trains are running anyway, so it's an almost zero cost solution. 

[MrPB]

16 minutes ago, Neil Down said:

The main problem lay with the decision.

The main problem lay with justifying the decision by lying in a Freedom of Information reply claiming you had no option but to do it for contractual reasons when clearly they did. Then in being found out to have lied in an official document which is supposed to record the true facts of a situation for public scrutiny purposes. It doesn’t surprise me I wouldn't be surprised if the DOI employed a Head of Lying, supported by a Lying to the Public Liaison Officer, who was then supported by a Lying Administrator to type up the lies. 

[Roger Mexico]

12 hours ago, quilp said:

Are you saying then, it was a ruse and deliberate lies were told to manipulate the outcome in favour of an allegedly tram-obsessed individual director, rather than it be a plain old cover up to hide a catalogue of costly errors and unacceptable delay across the department that they should have fessed-up to in the first instance? 

Let's be honest here - it's both.  Yes Longworth should have been told that no extra effort would be made to help any running of the horse trams during the works and any operations should fit around the work rather than the other way round.  And he should stop trying to micro-manage and interfere under the delusion that he is the expert on everything (I see the Cabbage is out of action again).  And he should be stopped in his fantasies of running the MER on the horse tram tracks.  (And of course he should have been gotten rid of years ago).

But the fact he can get away with this sort of behaviour is only a symptom of the real problems.  The project has been marked from the start with poor planning, a lack of urgency, an inability to look at how things work on the ground and a complete disregard for those affected by their actions.  none of which is any surprise because the main purpose of such projects is to sustain and increase the departmental budget and keep the management and their mates in the style to which they have become accustomed.  As a result failure is better than success because everything can be done all over again.  And there are never any repercussions except increased salaries and self-importance.

[Neil Down]

12 minutes ago, MrPB said:

The main problem lay with justifying the decision by lying in a Freedom of Information reply claiming you had no option but to do it for contractual reasons when clearly they did. Then in being found out to have lied in an official document which is supposed to record the true facts of a situation for public scrutiny purposes. It doesn’t surprise me I wouldn't be surprised if the DOI employed a Head of Lying, supported by a Lying to the Public Liaison Officer, who was then supported by a Lying Administrator to type up the lies. 

The very act of lying with this crowd isn't a problem, it comes naturally...

[woolley]

3 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

 (I see the Cabbage is out of action again).  

Whatever else he may be responsible for you cannot lay the purchase of the cabbage at Longworth's door. His original proposal was to purchase a new loco. 

[TheTeapot]

32 minutes ago, Neil Down said:

with the gardens narrowed slightly. 

Hmmmmmmmmmm

[MrPB]

2 minutes ago, woolley said:

Whatever else he may be responsible for you cannot lay the purchase of the cabbage at Longworth's door. His original proposal was to purchase a new loco. 

Yes you can. He flew across the Atlantic to inspect and buy it then had it shipped back. It was 100% his decision plain as day. 

[MrPB]

12 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

None of which is any surprise because the main purpose of such projects is to sustain and increase the departmental budget and keep the management and their mates in the style to which they have become accustomed.  As a result failure is better than success because everything can be done all over again.  And there are never any repercussions except increased salaries and self-importance.

Exactly I heard one local contractor refused to tender for the work on the basis that it was inevitably going to be such a total fuck up they’d make more money just supplying plant and labour to assist the main contractor to clear up the mess after it happened. 

[Neil Down]

22 minutes ago, woolley said:

Whatever else he may be responsible for you cannot lay the purchase of the cabbage at Longworth's door. His original proposal was loco. 

Better... 

[Neil Down]

21 minutes ago, TheTeapot said:

Hmmmmmmmmmm

Meaning?

[TheTeapot]

Meaning that as usual your ignorance stands out

[ellanvannin2010]

2 hours ago, Numbnuts said:

Your wrong as the fixation with the trams having to run has led to the complete piece meal mess we have now with so many areas started but none finished . Without trams they should have been able to systematically work there way along the Prom finishing blocks at a time .  

I think the mess that is Loch and Harris promenade would suggest otherwise, no trams to hold them up there but it has still taken ages, is behind schedule  and nothing is finished

[foxdaleliberationfront]

27 minutes ago, woolley said:

Whatever else he may be responsible for you cannot lay the purchase of the cabbage at Longworth's door. His original proposal was to purchase a new loco. 

Yes you can. He didn't 'need' to buy one at all. Yes he wanted one to supposedly reduce costs on his steam railway, he asked for £800k or whatever it was, and he was told no. 

He should then have just accepted that and moved on without a diesel train, not buy a substandard heap of shite

[Neil Down]

3 minutes ago, TheTeapot said:

Meaning that as usual your ignorance stands out

Go on then, enlighten me?