When will the lies stop?

[John Wright]

IoM newspapers did an FoI request. The response was they had to run due to contractual obligations. They asked for copies and were sent a selection of tourism brochures. They followed up and then it was admitted there were no contracts. It’s all in the examiner. Actual investigative journalism.

[Declan]

3 hours ago, Grounds Keeper Willy said:

But people have got hurt. Some businesses have nearly gone to the wall. People have lost income, and some people have been laid off by their employers because of the mess they have created to keep trams that lose money anyway running. Then it’s revealed they they didn’t even have to run them! 

Is this true? Is the mess the Prom is in because of the works or because of the steps they needed to run the trams whilst doing the works?

And is the implication that the only contractual obligation is that some tourist brochures feature the trams? Most brochures for London feature Big Ben, but they still put scaffolding and tarpaulins over it when maintenance is complete. What next? An artificial sun over Douglas  because it's always sunny in the brochures. 

[CharlieBrown]

1 hour ago, John Wright said:

IoM newspapers did an FoI request. The response was they had to run due to contractual obligations. They asked for copies and were sent a selection of tourism brochures. 

If you check out the official tourist site  https://www.visitisleofman.com/things-to-do/douglas-bay-horse-tramway-p1292461

'Douglas Bay Horse Tramway is being operated by Isle of Man Railways throughout 2016 using 12 original tramcars including a double decker tram'

Prices from 2016 and timetable from 2017, don't think anyone could have booked a holiday for 2019 thinking they were running.

[2bees]

1 hour ago, John Wright said:

IoM newspapers did an FoI request. The response was they had to run due to contractual obligations. They asked for copies and were sent a selection of tourism brochures. They followed up and then it was admitted there were no contracts. It’s all in the examiner. Actual investigative journalism.

I appreciate it looks that way but I have a strong suspicion that they were spoon fed the lines of inquiry to follow. 

[Neil Down]

Anybody want to bet that nobody will be held accountable for this whole sorry mess?

[mojomonkey]

7 minutes ago, Neil Down said:

Anybody want to bet that nobody will be held accountable for this whole sorry mess?

Lessons will be learned.

[woolley]

Certainly should be an investigation as to what was said, why and by whom. However,  there does appear to be a certain amount of spin being applied. The tramway is but one part of the promenade renewal project and the job would have to proceed whether or not the trams had run this year and it would have been exactly the same scope of work with the same disruption if they had not run. It isn't as though they could complete the road quicker and come back at a later date to slide the tramway into place unobtrusively by magic. 

[pongo]

Maybe the horse trams made sense when the seafront comprised hundreds of little hotels and boarding houses for people to get on and off at. But today, who seriously wants a ride to the remains of Summerland and back in the pouring rain?

[Numbnuts]

19 minutes ago, woolley said:

Certainly should be an investigation as to what was said, why and by whom. However,  there does appear to be a certain amount of spin being applied. The tramway is but one part of the promenade renewal project and the job would have to proceed whether or not the trams had run this year and it would have been exactly the same scope of work with the same disruption if they had not run. It isn't as though they could complete the road quicker and come back at a later date to slide the tramway into place unobtrusively by magic. 

Your wrong as the fixation with the trams having to run has led to the complete piece meal mess we have now with so many areas started but none finished . Without trams they should have been able to systematically work there way along the Prom finishing blocks at a time .  

[Neil Down]

21 minutes ago, woolley said:

Certainly should be an investigation as to what was said, why and by whom. However,  there does appear to be a certain amount of spin being applied. The tramway is but one part of the promenade renewal project and the job would have to proceed whether or not the trams had run this year and it would have been exactly the same scope of work with the same disruption if they had not run. It isn't as though they could complete the road quicker and come back at a later date to slide the tramway into place unobtrusively by magic. 

Point being woolley is that the works could and should have been further on than they are now. Dithering about with tramlines has significantly slowed the work down

[foxdaleliberationfront]

4 minutes ago, Numbnuts said:

Your wrong as the fixation with the trams having to run has led to the complete piece meal mess we have now with so many areas started but none finished . Without trams they should have been able to systematically work there way along the Prom finishing blocks at a time .  

Numbnuts is correct. The trams running resulted in work being held up and rescheduled, hence why we not have the entire length of Douglas Promenade dug up at the same time. 

[hissingsid]

There has been in the past, tourist advertising of the steam railway, the electric trams and the horse trams if groups had booked on this expectation perhaps the year before then although perhaps not a contract as such it could have caused difficulties for the Company's dealing with the travel arrangements.   This is only the only way I can figure it out.   The whole promenade scenario caused problems not just the horse trams but as usual the haters of the trams give vent.   There are worse things to worry about perhaps the paper should investigate these instead of making over the top exposures about not a lot.

[woolley]

Given the political decision re the trams had been taken I don't see that the schedule of work would have been very different whether the trams ran in 2019 or not. 

[woolley]

56 minutes ago, pongo said:

Maybe the horse trams made sense when the seafront comprised hundreds of little hotels and boarding houses for people to get on and off at. But today, who seriously wants a ride to the remains of Summerland and back in the pouring rain?

We are up to speed with your view that there is no value in anything that was around before 2010.  

[foxdaleliberationfront]

12 minutes ago, hissingsid said:

There has been in the past, tourist advertising of the steam railway, the electric trams and the horse trams if groups had booked on this expectation perhaps the year before then although perhaps not a contract as such it could have caused difficulties for the Company's dealing with the travel arrangements.   This is only the only way I can figure it out.   The whole promenade scenario caused problems not just the horse trams but as usual the haters of the trams give vent.   There are worse things to worry about perhaps the paper should investigate these instead of making over the top exposures about not a lot.

That's the problem though. Just like the Whataboutism of the TT apologists, the Tram apologists say "Oh but it's only £750k a year", "This attraction and that attraction lose more money than our beloved horse trams". 

The point being that for no apparent benefit and no apparent reason these loss-making trams have been prioritised over reducing the detrimental impact on Promenade businesses during the refurbishment work. All the parking was taken away from Queens Promenade during June, July, and August to allow a little lane for the horse trams to plough up and down with a few anorak clad visitors. Meanwhile, restaurants, dog groomers, the T-Shirt shop, the Queens and a whole host of other businesses were left to struggle during what for many of them should have been their busiest time of the year. 

We already know from evidence given to the Environmental Review Committee that many small business owners are suffering financially with them losing money from reduced trade and their mental health having been massively impacted. 

All it needed was for the horse trams to be put on hold for 12 or 18 months while the work took place. But that didn't happen and now the whole scheme is being dragged out even longer to the detriment of businesses and residents. 

What this comes down to is the sheer contempt that someone (or people) within Government has for the taxpayers of this Island. Somebody needs to be held to account.