Why the Island needs speed restrictions...

[finlo]

18 minutes ago, yootalkin2me said:

What about using a restricting device so that 50mph can only ever be achieved, the driver has to identify themselves via a retina scan and only when passed will the ignition be allowed....or something like that.

Difficult to do more than 40 with the rolling roadblocks as it is!

[Chutney]

The technology to somehow chip a vehicle so that upon entering a 30- 40 - 50mph or even temporary speed zone it becomes restricted to that speed cannot be far away. In fact with modern cars it’s probably already a viable solution. Let’s hope it’s not far away. 

[WTF]

9 hours ago, yootalkin2me said:

The R plate idea is good in theory but poor in practice. For example, when I passed my bike test I was supposed to display an R plate and travel at a speed of 50mph on unrestricted r9ads, at the time of passing my bike test I owned a 600cc bike and knew damn well I couldn't, and wouldn't, stick to 50mph, over the mountain I would triple that speed therefore I took the R plate off the day after my test, I also knew that other drivers/passengers would take my reg plate and report me to the Police almost instantly die to the popularity of mobile phones.

I appreciate that I broke the law but I very much doubt that I am alone.

I'm not proud of what i did, I'm only stating this to show just how easy it is to circumvent the R plate thing.

i passed my car test at 16 and never drove a car again for about 5 years,  back then  cars cost more than motorbikes and i couldn't afford one so an R plate would have done nothing for me.  same with one of my kids who passed the driving test and didn't drive for 2 years, never displayed an R plate cos they didn't need to despite having the same no experience when they did start driving themselves around.

[The Dog's Dangly Bits]

Kids in general are probably becoming less obsessed about driving anyway.  I personally couldn't wait to get driving and passing the test but I dont get that impression these days.  I don't know if statistics are published about the test centre in terms of numbers and breakdown of those numbers but it might  be interesting. 

[Derek Flint]

11 hours ago, The Dog's Dangly Bits said:

Speed limits would make a difference in general but there is no chance of that whilst the TT exists.

And here lies the dilemma.

I obviously argue my opinions from a narrow perspective; I’m a highly trained driver, capable at speed, and enjoy a fast run as much as the next man. But I worked in roads policing for a large part of my career, and just weeks from my retirement, was still leading road death investigations. Many of those collisions had involved speed, and some, especially on the Mountain Road, were, in my opinion, a direct consequence of Government policy to fail to cap the upper limit of speed on the public road. And where road use is multi-dimensional (i.e. not just one type of vehicle under controlled conditions) then there is a further need to manage that interaction by further controls.

in short, I absolutely recognize and support the need for further controls. It is simply, good governance. The state has a positive obligation to protect life and at the moment, ours is taking a cavalier attitude to sustained public protection, with a half- baked and compromised road safety strategy.

my view is not popular in some quarters. A good number of Supercar owners on the Island have, shall we say, distanced themselves from me, patronisingly explaining to me  that speed isn’t the issue - it’s inappropriate use of speed that is the problem. Whereas they are of course right, the point is that you have to legislate for the masses, and most importantly, start to change the culture. It’s a much bigger picture, and giving everyone their own perspective on how fast is safe is not a good starting point.

The Chief Constable is beginning to gently suggest that if we can solve TT and MGP on the roads, we will make a big step forward. He is of course right. But it will take politicians who understand their responsibilities for things to change.

[The Central Scrutiniser]

One of my offspring destroyed the family car some years ago, 4 days after passing her driving test. She was traveling over 60mph in a 40 zone, probably showing off to the 3 passengers. The traffic cop investigating was convinced when he arrived at the crash that he would be dealing with multiple  fatalities, such was the damage to the car. Amazingly there were only minor injuries.

Thankfully the courts banned her, imposed a hefty fine and made her re-sit her test. So yes, having been though such an awful experience I would gladly support some form of automatic speed restriction to new drivers.

[The Dog's Dangly Bits]

11 minutes ago, Derek Flint said:

And here lies the dilemma.

I obviously argue my opinions from a narrow perspective; I’m a highly trained driver, capable at speed, and enjoy a fast run as much as the next man. But I worked in roads policing for a large part of my career, and just weeks from my retirement, was still leading road death investigations. Many of those collisions had involved speed, and some, especially on the Mountain Road, were, in my opinion, a direct consequence of Government policy to fail to cap the upper limit of speed on the public road. And where road use is multi-dimensional (i.e. not just one type of vehicle under controlled conditions) then there is a further need to manage that interaction by further controls.

in short, I absolutely recognize and support the need for further controls. It is simply, good governance. The state has a positive obligation to protect life and at the moment, ours is taking a cavalier attitude to sustained public protection, with a half- baked and compromised road safety strategy.

my view is not popular in some quarters. A good number of Supercar owners on the Island have, shall we say, distanced themselves from me, patronisingly explaining to me  that speed isn’t the issue - it’s inappropriate use of speed that is the problem. Whereas they are of course right, the point is that you have to legislate for the masses, and most importantly, start to change the culture. It’s a much bigger picture, and giving everyone their own perspective on how fast is safe is not a good starting point.

The Chief Constable is beginning to gently suggest that if we can solve TT and MGP on the roads, we will make a big step forward. He is of course right. But it will take politicians who understand their responsibilities for things to change.

No politician is willing to take that on because the perception is that challenging anything TT related is a poison chalice.   I suspect it may be the opposite.

[manxman1980]

9 hours ago, Chutney said:

The technology to somehow chip a vehicle so that upon entering a 30- 40 - 50mph or even temporary speed zone it becomes restricted to that speed cannot be far away. In fact with modern cars it’s probably already a viable solution. Let’s hope it’s not far away. 

My car has camera's that recognise speed limit signs and displays them on the dashboard, it also recognises the reminder signs (as long as they are not obscured) and the overhead smart motorway signs.  As the car also has cruise control and a speed limiter it would probably be very possible to connect the two systems.

The only issue is that if you are travelling on a road with a temporary speed limit due to road works, if the cameras do not pick up a reminder sign within a certain distance the display defaults back to the speed limit for that type of road. 

You would also have issues if you were travelling in Europe where KPH are used rather that MPH.

@Derek Flint obviously you have a lot of experience in dealing with incidents on the manx roads but would a maximum speed limit really be enforced?  There are certain roads on the Island where you will hardly ever see a Police Car let alone a speed trap.  That would suggest the need for speed cameras which just cause people to brake sharply as they approach and speed off once clear (based on my personal experiences in the UK).  The ones that seem to work best are the average speed cameras although 50MPH in a HGV always seems to be quicker than 50MPH in a car for some reason! 

[Shake me up Judy]

Another great post Derek but don't look to the politicians to step up in our plutocratic old boys club. The art of politics in the IOM is to look the other way and whistle. It pays well too.

[manxy]

https://visionzeronetwork.org/about/what-is-vision-zero/

I was looking for an answer as to what they did but it seems that being a stakeholder is a factor and could only see another Quango being formed! Oh and perhaps another jolly to see how it operates.

 

Quote - Vision Zero is a significant departure from the status quo in two major ways:

Vision Zero recognizes that people will sometimes make mistakes, so the road system and related policies should be designed to ensure those inevitable mistakes do not result in severe injuries or fatalities. This means that system designers and policymakers are expected to improve the roadway environment, policies (such as speed management), and other related systems to lessen the severity of crashes.

Vision Zero is a multidisciplinary approach, bringing together diverse and necessary stakeholders to address this complex problem. In the past, meaningful, cross-disciplinary collaboration among local traffic planners and engineers, policymakers, and public health professionals has not been the norm. Vision Zero acknowledges that many factors contribute to safe mobility -- including roadway design, speeds, behaviors, technology, and policies -- and sets clear goals to achieve the shared goal of zero fatalities and severe injuries.

[doc.fixit]

11 hours ago, Chutney said:

The technology to somehow chip a vehicle so that upon entering a 30- 40 - 50mph or even temporary speed zone it becomes restricted to that speed cannot be far away. In fact with modern cars it’s probably already a viable solution. Let’s hope it’s not far away. 

The speed limits already on the island are so poorly designated that it is almost impossible to see the logic behind their placement. I suggest that IF speed limits were more appropriate then just maybe they would be paid attention too.

How many times on these forums and to various, 'politicians', have I pointed out the complete, illogical stupidity of having no restriction on our narrow roads and lanes. No limit outside my cottage where the lane is one and a half cars wide? Nuts to say the least. 

[the stinking enigma]

16 hours ago, The Dog's Dangly Bits said:

 

You wont stop idiots being idiots.  Luckily there are not too many around.

Welcome back again.

[Roger Mexico]

34 minutes ago, manxy said:

https://visionzeronetwork.org/about/what-is-vision-zero/

I was looking for an answer as to what they did but it seems that being a stakeholder is a factor and could only see another Quango being formed! Oh and perhaps another jolly to see how it operates.

Quote - Vision Zero is a significant departure from the status quo in two major ways:

Vision Zero recognizes that people will sometimes make mistakes, so the road system and related policies should be designed to ensure those inevitable mistakes do not result in severe injuries or fatalities. This means that system designers and policymakers are expected to improve the roadway environment, policies (such as speed management), and other related systems to lessen the severity of crashes.

Vision Zero is a multidisciplinary approach, bringing together diverse and necessary stakeholders to address this complex problem. In the past, meaningful, cross-disciplinary collaboration among local traffic planners and engineers, policymakers, and public health professionals has not been the norm. Vision Zero acknowledges that many factors contribute to safe mobility -- including roadway design, speeds, behaviors, technology, and policies -- and sets clear goals to achieve the shared goal of zero fatalities and severe injuries.

That's a full house in Bullshit Bingo, isn't it?  I suspect in Manx terms it will mean "Let's spend lots of money dicking about with the roads rather than cheaper alternatives such as imposing a speed limit".  Also lots and lots of meetings to fail to sort things out that could be solved by a quick phone call or conversation in a corridor.  Because otherwise how will they fill their days?

There's obviously some useful things there - including restricting speed and actually looking at the data. But when people say things like:

Quote

Vision Zero is not a slogan, not a tagline, not even just a program. It is a fundamentally different way to approach traffic safety.

you know that slogans and taglines are exactly what you are going to get.  The truth is that improvements in road safety (and they have been considerable over the years) come from an accumulation of small changes, not from grand 'visions'.

[wrighty]

3 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

 

You would also have issues if you were travelling in Europe where KPH are used rather that MPH.

 

Not if you linked the speed limit signs to GPS location.  I'm pretty sure I've come across similar functions in a car before - I may have had a BMW that adjusted its headlights to left or right side driving according to knowing if it was driving in the UK or Europe.

[Derek Flint]

3 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

 

@Derek Flint obviously you have a lot of experience in dealing with incidents on the manx roads but would a maximum speed limit really be enforced?  There are certain roads on the Island where you will hardly ever see a Police Car let alone a speed trap.  That would suggest the need for speed cameras which just cause people to brake sharply as they approach and speed off once clear (based on my personal experiences in the UK).  The ones that seem to work best are the average speed cameras although 50MPH in a HGV always seems to be quicker than 50MPH in a car for some reason! 

Yes. The use of average speed cameras has a place, as does regularised enforcement.

The Chief Con just needs to get RPU numbers back to where they were before he slashed them 12 yrs ago.