Numbnuts Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Derek Flint said: IRIS. Blimey, we've all forgotten about that one haven't we. Another huge infrastructure project that was flawed from the outset. Sadly if you look back from the smallest to largest there all a clustefuck. Please please don't let DOI anywhere near the deep water berth !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Trumps Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 17 hours ago, Chris Thomas said: No. To aid independence, and to support cross-government policy making. Economic Affairs Unit does produce and collate statistics independently. They do. In CoMin, CoMin National Strategy Group and in Manx National Development Forum for instance. Why are there only diagrams published in the minutes of the Manx National Development Forum - is it impossible to gain the sense of the meetings in real words? Obviously we don't see full minutes of COMin meetings so we have absolutely no idea what is really going on in economic development planning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 14 minutes ago, Donald Trumps said: Why are there only diagrams published in the minutes of the Manx National Development Forum - is it impossible to gain the sense of the meetings in real words? Obviously we don't see full minutes of COMin meetings so we have absolutely no idea what is really going on in economic development planning This. Sleight of hand politics relying on a supine and politically-disinterested population by self-interested parties with breath-taking arrogance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 Whilst not advocating any sort of riotous assembly, until all those criticising this administration (here, farcebook, etc.) collectively show their disdain for this piss-poor bunch of amateurs and get out there in protest, they'll carry on with unchallenged impunity. Even in the face of public opposition against the failing projects, it matters not to them. That's taking the piss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Thomas Posted January 14, 2020 Author Share Posted January 14, 2020 On 1/13/2020 at 9:21 PM, Rushen Spy said: Exactly. When they do give these annual pay rises to the public sector, it has an inflationary effect and causes the cost of living for the whole working population to increase, so private sector workers are being screwed over in more ways than just tax and NI. Pay rises in public sector are no more or less inflationary than pay rises in the private sector. And inflation has tumbled in the last couple of years when pay in the public sector has been agreed in a 3 year pay deal. Both private and public sector earnings pay tax and NI similarly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlo Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 9 minutes ago, Chris Thomas said: Pay rises in public sector are no more or less inflationary than pay rises in the private sector. And inflation has tumbled in the last couple of years when pay in the public sector has been agreed in a 3 year pay deal. Both private and public sector earnings pay tax and NI similarly. Except for when it comes to putting utility bills up by the rate of "inflation" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 1 minute ago, finlo said: Except for when it comes to putting utility bills up by the rate of "inflation" And rates, in order that the LAs can also meet those pay rise requirements? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rushen Spy Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 6 minutes ago, Chris Thomas said: Pay rises in public sector are no more or less inflationary than pay rises in the private sector. And inflation has tumbled in the last couple of years when pay in the public sector has been agreed in a 3 year pay deal. Both private and public sector earnings pay tax and NI similarly. Except one minor difference you're omitting: there are no sector-wide pay rises in the private sector. I wasn't referring to monetary inflation, as in more cash in circulation (causing existing supply to be worth less) but to cost of living inflation. The cost of living is inflating, but the actual monetary inflation is low. This simply compounds the adverse effect of the former on the private sector workforce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Thomas Posted January 14, 2020 Author Share Posted January 14, 2020 11 hours ago, MrPB said: Are any of those external bonds making provision to repay the debt at maturity? Also wasn’t the £95m MUA debt written off only the internal loan between Treasury and the MUA that was written off? The external loan must still be sat somewhere in Treasury? Actually the IOMN link you provided above seems to confirm this “The consultants concluded that writing off £95m from the consolidated loan fund would bring the debts in line with other British power companies - and increase financial resilience.” So that looks like only the internal loan to ourselves was written off to me as the papers say it was £95m written off from the CLF which you confirm above is the portfolio of loans which are due to Treasury by the MUA. The bonds cannot be paid off early, but there is a bond repayment fund which has around £70 million in it which will repay the bonds at their maturities in 2030 and 2034. Consolidated Loans Fund is internal, as you state. 10 hours ago, b4mbi said: Hi Chris, whilst you're in an explanatory mood, who invested in and owns these bonds? I do not know. But they have a good yield relative to current rates. 10 hours ago, Derek Flint said: Thanks Chris. It sounds a bit like the six credit card trick, where you run up debt and then keep paying each off with the next one. It also shows that accountants are running the place, contrary to what should be happening. What a mess. This is a clear example of the need for an offence of misconduct in a Public Office on our statutes. The individuals involved operated so far out of their level of authority that the public would have expected sanctions. Isle of Man Government finance is so incredibly complex, I don’t think anyone really has a clear picture on exactly where we are. There must be a way of simplifying things. I can’t imagine any other place of 80’000 souls having such a complex administration. It is not a mess. It is sorted with a financial, business and pricing plan. And the MEA failing 15 years ago was investigated with conclusions and some action for about 8 years thereafter. What is the point of going back repeatedly? 10 hours ago, english zloty said: The water side of things was all sorted. You are right - the MUA bond repayment fund was formed from the Water Board bond repayment fund which was established first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holte End Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 5 minutes ago, Chris Thomas said: Pay rises in public sector are no more or less inflationary than pay rises in the private sector. And inflation has tumbled in the last couple of years when pay in the public sector has been agreed in a 3 year pay deal. Both private and public sector earnings pay tax and NI similarly. Mr Thomas did you get this from your statisticians. As your statisticians are using the wrong formular for wage rises in the private sector. They need to ask people from that sector and stop guessing. Most private sector have not have inflationary rises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Thomas Posted January 14, 2020 Author Share Posted January 14, 2020 5 minutes ago, Rushen Spy said: Except one minor difference you're omitting: there are no sector-wide pay rises in the private sector. I wasn't referring to monetary inflation, as in more cash in circulation (causing existing supply to be worth less) but to cost of living inflation. The cost of living is inflating, but the actual monetary inflation is low. This simply compounds the adverse effect of the former on the private sector workforce. What evidence do you have for the assertion you make about monetary inflation? I think there is quite a lot of money in the Manx economy. I was referring to cost of living. Inflation link to wage rises is the same whether they are private or public. You are right about collective bargaining difference, but I believe pay in the private sector is benchmarked extensively too which probably has similar effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 When you're in receipt of a substantial salary with an £8000 receipt free expense account you are not in the right place to be making comments on the cost of living. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gettafa Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 Get that there Billy Henderson MLC. He knows all about cost of living. He was struggling on £50,000pa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Thomas Posted January 14, 2020 Author Share Posted January 14, 2020 11 minutes ago, Holte End said: Mr Thomas did you get this from your statisticians. As your statisticians are using the wrong formular for wage rises in the private sector. They need to ask people from that sector and stop guessing. Most private sector have not have inflationary rises. With respect, the statutory annual earnings survey of 2000 + people is more reliable than your personal experience. But you are right that average earnings in private sector have been under pressure, although median earnings not so much, and some in the private sector have had static or falling wages. Thanks for your comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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