Villa’s revised T&Cs could kill live music

[Manx Bean]

Well, except for any promoter with very deep pockets..

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/lightning-seeds-gig-cancelled/

More short-sightedness from the bean counters..

[The Voice of Reason]

1 hour ago, Manx Bean said:

Well, except for any promoter with very deep pockets..

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/lightning-seeds-gig-cancelled/

More short-sightedness from the bean counters..

Not quite sure how this is short- sightedness from the bean counters.

If the sums don’t add up they don’t add up ( and I say this as a disappointed ticket holder for this concert)

God knows there are enough on here quick enough to criticize the Government/Council  for ventures that make a loss.

At least this was nipped in the bud, so to speak, and further irrecoverable costs were not incurred.

This cancellation seems to have saved more loss of money. Disappointing for the promoter and disappointing for those hoping to see the band. 

Damned if they do and damned if they don’t. 

Cant have it both ways. Although some seem to think you can.

[2112]

For the owner of Triskel Promotions to have more or less given up, this must have really upset him. 
 

@The Voice of Reasonits rather ironic if IOMG are now playing hard ball economics, on something like this, especially when they waste £mmms on the TT and other things which is doubtful of producing an adequate return

[Non-Believer]

Well, some claimed that a loss of long thousands on the Tom Jones gig a few years back wasn't going to happen too...

Maybe now twice shy?

[Max Power]

Maybe they've been stung by promoters who don't pay up in the event of a loss? 

I'd have thought the Lightning Seeds would have been well attended and sold out? It'll discourage those taking a flyer on some half baked acts I guess?

[Kopek]

Back in the 40's or was it the 70's I used to think that I should get to like the Lightening Seeds but I've managed without!!😃

[Gladys]

1 hour ago, Non-Believer said:

Well, some claimed that a loss of long thousands on the Tom Jones gig a few years back wasn't going to happen too...

Maybe now twice shy?

Who lost on that? As I remember it was pretty well full. 

Edited July 13, 2022 by Gladys

[Roger Mexico]

2 hours ago, Non-Believer said:

Well, some claimed that a loss of long thousands on the Tom Jones gig a few years back wasn't going to happen too...

Maybe now twice shy?

Except that the promoter in that case was ....... the Government.  But it's OK because it didn't make too big a loss.  "Honest" says Skelly.  But he can't tell you how much.

IOMG Government are the experts in this field.  They don't want others coming in to spoil their record by making a success

[2112]

The VillaGaiety are heavily promoting the Tyson Fury Roadshow/Party/An Audience With ……./Meet and Greet. VillaGaiety have posters on the Manannan. I don’t think this event is ‘cheap’ and is really aimed at the real boxing fans, prepared to spend the money on admission and the associated extras/merchandise. I wonder if the promotion company behind Tyson Fury’s event we’re treated any differently? I reckon our politicos will get their tickets, weak at the knees at the thought of a HNWI boxer entertaining the thought of locate.im to the island. 

[Hooly]

Something must have happened for the villa to take this position. But why has this matter only come up now, 2 weeks before the gig? Surely they knew the booking terms at the point they booked the band and put it on sale

 

As I understand, Triskel or any other promoter simply pay the hire fee for the hall, bar staff, security etc. There must have been an occasion, or multiple occasions, where they haven't received the full fee and they've lost out

 

Or, the VillaGaiety don't like seeing someone else making profits and want to book all these acts themselves, at the same time taking on all the risk rather than just a small portion of it 

 

Either way, 100% deposits don't appear to be a common in the music business. Certainly to book a band is 50% at time of booking, then 50% just before or after the performance

[Manx Bean]

9 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Not quite sure how this is short- sightedness from the bean counters.

If the sums don’t add up they don’t add up ( and I say this as a disappointed ticket holder for this concert)

God knows there are enough on here quick enough to criticize the Government/Council  for ventures that make a loss.

At least this was nipped in the bud, so to speak, and further irrecoverable costs were not incurred.

This cancellation seems to have saved more loss of money. Disappointing for the promoter and disappointing for those hoping to see the band. 

Damned if they do and damned if they don’t. 

Cant have it both ways. Although some seem to think you can.

I don't think you understand what actually happened here. Triskel Promotions (run by a very experienced local promoter and decent man) had hired the Villa effectively as a Private Hire (known as "dry hire" in the trade), then booked the act to perform, then sold tickets. So, Triskel are taking on ALL of the financial risk, not the Government. You'll probably find that over half of the shows on at the Villa these days are put on in a similar way by promoters.

In fact, probably 80% of shows in the UK are booked and run this way in most of Britain and Europe. It's a model that has been in place for decades and works - but seemingly the Government bean counters have identified it as a risk, so decided to change the rules and wreck the industry. Well done. Dickheads.

So, here's the rub for promoters with the rule change - they rely on the ticket revenue to cover expenses (as you'd expect), BUT the way the industry works is although you front up deposits for the venue and performer, the balance doesn't get paid until after the gig, once all the ticket revenue is in. If then, there is an overall loss, the promoter has to stump up - and all decent promoters do, as they know some gigs will be do better or worse than others. 

ISLE OF MAN. WHERE YOU CAN'T.

 

 

[2112]

In effect what we are now getting is a state controlled entertainment promoter, like every other aspect of island life. No choices - like it or lump it. 

[Hoops]

9 minutes ago, Manx Bean said:

I don't think you understand what actually happened here. Triskel Promotions (run by a very experienced local promoter and decent man) had hired the Villa effectively as a Private Hire (known as "dry hire" in the trade), then booked the act to perform, then sold tickets. So, Triskel are taking on ALL of the financial risk, not the Government. You'll probably find that over half of the shows on at the Villa these days are put on in a similar way by promoters.

In fact, probably 80% of shows in the UK are booked and run this way in most of Britain and Europe. It's a model that has been in place for decades and works - but seemingly the Government bean counters have identified it as a risk, so decided to change the rules and wreck the industry. Well done. Dickheads.

So, here's the rub for promoters with the rule change - they rely on the ticket revenue to cover expenses (as you'd expect), BUT the way the industry works is although you front up deposits for the venue and performer, the balance doesn't get paid until after the gig, once all the ticket revenue is in. If then, there is an overall loss, the promoter has to stump up - and all decent promoters do, as they know some gigs will be do better or worse than others. 

ISLE OF MAN. WHERE YOU CAN'T.

 

 

We don't get enough bands over as it is. This promoter  appears willing to take a hit in order to give us a rare night out, and was then stymied by the government and it's officials. WTF?

[Roger Mexico]

I suspect part of the problem here is that the various waves of Covid have left people less willing to book in advance.  Events will still go ahead, but audiences may prefer to pay at the door or only a few days in advance in case they go down with the latest variant.  They'll only pay in advance for something they know will sell out.  So even if gigs would eventually fill, promoters and venues won't know till last minute.

Obviously in these difficult circumstances, you'd think venues would do their best to be helpful.  After all if a concert is cancelled they don't get anything and overheads still have to be paid.  But apparently not.

[2112]

15 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

I suspect part of the problem here is that the various waves of Covid have left people less willing to book in advance.  Events will still go ahead, but audiences may prefer to pay at the door or only a few days in advance in case they go down with the latest variant.  They'll only pay in advance for something they know will sell out.  So even if gigs would eventually fill, promoters and venues won't know till last minute.

Obviously in these difficult circumstances, you'd think venues would do their best to be helpful.  After all if a concert is cancelled they don't get anything and overheads still have to be paid.  But apparently not.

This is the IOMG, it’s civil servants, it’s managers and agents. The culture doesn’t help either.