IOM work permit debate

[Banker]

3 minutes ago, jackwhite said:

Why such strong opposition?

How do you know this is "what the Manx people want"? Are you referring solely to those born here or are you referring to people as all of us who live here?

He hasn’t a clue, most people I speak to don’t care about this issue as they see many lazy bastards who don’t want a job anyway.

 

[The Phantom]

1 hour ago, Cueey Lewis And The News said:

They can either do what the Manx people want or do what the CoC and the DfE want. Many of those who go against this won’t get voted back in that is clear. If either of my MHKs vote in favour of removing the WP system then they won’t get a vote off me at all next time around. 

 

1 hour ago, Gladys said:

Isn't that how politics works?  MHKs are representing the people, that's why they were elected.  Only a referendum will determine what the people want. 

If I can direct you to the 'Time to change the rules on drugs thread' with various surveys and studies all showing the same thing.  They'll clearly don't give a fuck about what the plebs want. 

[Cueey Lewis And The News]

16 minutes ago, jackwhite said:

Why such strong opposition?

How do you know this is "what the Manx people want"? Are you referring solely to those born here or are you referring to people as all of us who live here?

I think you’ll find that I’m entitled to be so strongly opposed what with it being a free world and everything. No doubt though you’ll find something to get upset about. You usually seem to. Most Manx people I have spoken to do not agree with what is being proposed at all. 

[Gladys]

13 minutes ago, The Phantom said:

 

If I can direct you to the 'Time to change the rules on drugs thread' with various surveys and studies all showing the same thing.  They'll clearly don't give a fuck about what the plebs want. 

A survey or study is not the same as a referendum. 

[The Phantom]

3 minutes ago, Gladys said:

A survey or study is not the same as a referendum. 

Indeed.  To some extent, I think we should go Swiss style for many big decisions. With smart phones etc, it wouldn't be too difficult to achieve.  Do we think however that the collective Island intelligence would be sufficient to be trusted?

 

[Numbnuts]

35 minutes ago, CrazyDave said:

If you were a potential new resident looking to relocate here and were told that your work permit had to be reviewed in 12 months, would you relocate yourself and your kids?

You an I know they are always renewed, but as an outside not knowing the island I wouldn’t risk it.

You make a good point so just tweak the info to say if you keep your nose clean it’s just a formality to have it renewed. Everyone I’ve spoken to over the years , from UK and further a field , think we are so lucky to be able to control and monitor our population. 

[Ringy Rose]

24 minutes ago, Numbnuts said:

think we are so lucky to be able to control and monitor our population. 

It only covers people who are employed here, though. Doesn’t control anything else. Drug dealers don’t need work permits. Nor do retired people.

I’m a come-over. Partner has permanent work permit, I have spouse work permit on the back of that. I have to re-apply every year and pay sixty quid every year for the privilege. The real purpose of the permit seems to be to extract £300 from me.

It’s also worth pointing out that if my partner lost their job for whatever reason- redundancy, ill health, death- my spouse permit would automatically expire too. The same would happen if we split up. There’s no guarantee I’d get a replacement work permit in my own name if that happened.

That’s a big risk with a young child and a mortgage.

I’ve obviously taken the risk but others won’t. We need more working age people. We don’t need to scare them off.

The whole system is just bureaucratic pointlessness, costing employers and employees money. Unemployment is negligible here. Anyone who wants a job has a job. 

Edited October 26, 2023 by Ringy Rose

[Cueey Lewis And The News]

16 minutes ago, Ringy Rose said:

I’m a come-over. Partner has permanent work permit, I have spouse work permit on the back of that. I have to re-apply every year and pay sixty quid every year for the privilege. The real purpose of the permit seems to be to extract £300 from me.

Good job your partner didn’t go to work in Jersey or Guernsey then where if they lost their job and couldn’t find another they’d kick you off the Island by withdrawing your right to reside even if you were part way through your lease, or if you’d bought a property you wouldn’t be allowed to live permanently in it as you would be no longer treated as a resident. So a silly piece of paper for a few quid isn’t really that much of an imposition is it?

The anti work permit people mostly start to sound like Brexiteers in the end. How dare you require me to be subjected to this foreign process I’m English! 

Edited October 26, 2023 by Cueey Lewis And The News

[b4mbi]

why is there even debate on this? there is "full" employment on the Island, we need workers.

Just suspend work permits and see what happens.

Less talking, more doing.

 

[Steve_Christian]

48 minutes ago, The Phantom said:

Indeed.  To some extent, I think we should go Swiss style for many big decisions. With smart phones etc, it wouldn't be too difficult to achieve.  Do we think however that the collective Island intelligence would be sufficient to be trusted?

 

My personal opinion is that it wouldn’t work. People wouldn’t have time/inclination to do the correct research to make informed decisions on complex matters. 

[Manxweegie]

1 hour ago, The Phantom said:

With smart phones etc, it wouldn't be too difficult to achieve.

Have you missed all the complaining about a parking app? Now to try democracy via an app would practically kill some of the ol' dinosaurs off! 

[slinkydevil]

We need more red tape.

• Individuals to apply for a license to apply for a work permit.
• Companies have to put a notice in every window of their premises for 3 months before the new employee can start and then fill out a risk assessment form that is to be posted back on the first Tuesday of the following month.
• A select panel of 12 will decide if the application can be passed to Markwell House who will then do background checks, culminating in a site visit, with clipboards and those small half-size pens.

A win, win for the Isle of Man.

[The Bastard]

It's a two-edged sword. 

One one hand the IOM definitely needs workers to drive economic growth, but on the other hand it's good protection against the nepotistic "jobs for the boys" attitude that sometimes creeps in. 

IMHO, part of the quality of life on the IOM is due to the screening questions that used to be asked at work permit time - there was always an obligation to provide details of criminal activity, and permits were denied for robbers, burglars, murderers and rapists and the like. No job meant no incentive to move here and contribute to wider societal issues.  

[Banker]

2 minutes ago, slinkydevil said:

We need more red tape.

• Individuals to apply for a license to apply for a work permit.
• Companies have to put a notice in every window of their premises for 3 months before the new employee can start and then fill out a risk assessment form that is to be posted back on the first Tuesday of the following month.
• A select panel of 12 will decide if the application can be passed to Markwell House who will then do background checks, culminating in a site visit, with clipboards and those small half-size pens.

A win, win for the Isle of Man.

That would suit Cueey & his FO halloo mates

[The Phantom]

31 minutes ago, Manxweegie said:

Have you missed all the complaining about a parking app? Now to try democracy via an app would practically kill some of the ol' dinosaurs off! 

Would that be such a bad thing?  I think @HiVibes might back me up on this. 

44 minutes ago, Steve_Christian said:

My personal opinion is that it wouldn’t work. People wouldn’t have time/inclination to do the correct research to make informed decisions on complex matters. 

I suspect you might be right.  It's probably evidence that the Swiss are smarter than us. 

If we had (real) parties, they should do the research and lobbying.  If you choose option 1 then these are the pros, cons, costs, benefits etc.  This of course also relies on the fact you are suggesting the current politicians make informed decisions on complex matters.