Roger Mexico Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 43 minutes ago, TheTeapot said: There is so much to consider about this, to get it right, that it is likely too hard for our politicians to actually do. And that's not me shitting on them either, it's really really complex. Because I'm instinctively for it I've sought out some decent people who are opposed just to hear what they've got to say. It's been interesting. A couple I've broadly dismissed cos they were so religious and I told them so too, but some of the others have really strong valid points. Especially regarding coercion and dementia. Everyone knows nothing moves fast on the Isle of Man but I sort of feel that this, unusually, perhaps is. The trouble with the argument that you can't trust these people with sorting out assisted dying is that they're also in charge of the health service and everything else, so lots of unassisted dying (or not) and how people live. It's an argument for better politicians and public servants not against (or for) assisted dying. Ironically I suspect this legislation will get better scrutiny from them than 99% of the rest that passes through Tynwald. Simply because they know we are looking at them consider it. But a lot of the points that are being very validly raised are often things that affect other situations as well and need to be looked at there, by them and us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarndyce Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 (edited) 4 hours ago, Mikimoto said: With all due respect, Kate Lord-Streetflats is barely 40 with a Leeds degree in EU studies...never sure how these people are suddenly qualified to comment on such key issues. Easy - they won an election. Take it up with the voters of Glenfaba and Peel. Edited May 15 by Jarndyce Bold 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopek Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 Politics and academic qualifications do not have to coincide ? The 'cliche' of an Academic as a left leaning socialist is outgrown by the sheer number academics coming out of University today? Some are bound to be right wing tories!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred the shred Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 No doubt the new Bishop will be sticking her beak into this as soon as she is in office. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 On 5/15/2024 at 2:05 PM, Mikimoto said: With all due respect, Kate Lord-Streetflats is barely 40 with a Leeds degree in EU studies...never sure how these people are suddenly qualified to comment on such key issues. As qualified as you and me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 4 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said: As qualified as you and me. Qualified by virtue of having been elected as a MHK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asitis Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 You can have as many Phd's as you want and still be an idiot ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 Just now, Gladys said: Qualified by virtue of having been elected as a MHK. If it was just politics I'd agree. It's more than that, much more. If I understand correctly the issue doesn't have overwhelming support from the Island's medical profession. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 51 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said: If it was just politics I'd agree. It's more than that, much more. If I understand correctly the issue doesn't have overwhelming support from the Island's medical profession. Tynwald has had a series of specialists from each side of the debate, including local medics, to help inform them of the issues. It is a very complex matter with many ramifications, but having brought the bill for consideration, who else should consider it, amend it and decide whether or not it should be enacted, but Tynwald? That is the role of the MHKs and MLCs. How else should the legislature operate? None of the MLCs or MHKs are 'qualified' in the technical understanding to comment on this topic and that is why they have brought the experts in. Possibly Dr A is the best 'qualified', but he has brought the bill so could not be said to be impartial, although after listening to both sides of the debate his view may change. However, all MHKs are qualified in the sense that they are the elected representatives of their constituents, and the wider population. I really do not think their academic qualifications are entirely relevant in this debate. Or do we expect each to shrug and 'I don't know' and not fulfil their role to debate and approve/reject? There is also Royal Assent to consider. I don't know what criteria is applied in that process, but you would think that if a bill as important and fundamental as this had not been subject to full and informed debate, it may not get that assent. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarndyce Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 1 hour ago, asitis said: You can have as many Phd's as you want and still be an idiot ! The voice of experience? How many do you have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asitis Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jarndyce said: The voice of experience? How many do you have? Probably ! But I'm wise enough not to rise to the bait ! Edited May 17 by asitis 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 2 hours ago, Gladys said: Tynwald has had a series of specialists from each side of the debate, including local medics, to help inform them of the issues. It is a very complex matter with many ramifications, but having brought the bill for consideration, who else should consider it, amend it and decide whether or not it should be enacted, but Tynwald? That is the role of the MHKs and MLCs. How else should the legislature operate? None of the MLCs or MHKs are 'qualified' in the technical understanding to comment on this topic and that is why they have brought the experts in. Possibly Dr A is the best 'qualified', but he has brought the bill so could not be said to be impartial, although after listening to both sides of the debate his view may change. However, all MHKs are qualified in the sense that they are the elected representatives of their constituents, and the wider population. I really do not think their academic qualifications are entirely relevant in this debate. Or do we expect each to shrug and 'I don't know' and not fulfil their role to debate and approve/reject? There is also Royal Assent to consider. I don't know what criteria is applied in that process, but you would think that if a bill as important and fundamental as this had not been subject to full and informed debate, it may not get that assent. Don't disagree with any of the above, just simply saying that the bigger picture transcends even elected representatives. If it was that easy to deal with most countries in the world would already have this on their statute books and we would already be years behind. I don't subscribe to the body of opinion that says just because IOM would be first in the UK to legislate for it, it would be good for us. As I've said earlier up the thread, I'll be surprised if it gets as far as Royal Assent. I'm not a fan of Alf but on this I think he's right. The idea needs testing to see if there's an appetite for it. I believe Tynwald, the Keys in particular need some form of mandate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred the shred Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 If there is a referendum on this I would say it will sail through this is just by comments I have heard and seen by the general public. If this goes through before the next election it will be a surprise at least people will have a clear view by then on each MHK s views and I foresee a big shake up in the Keys . The two new ladies who I did not really think were up to scratch have proved me wrong (Joney and Sarah) and they seemed to have grown into the job and I think will go far in their political life. We shall see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 (edited) change of mind 🙄 Edited May 17 by WTF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casta Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 We are often told that mental illness is like any other malady, but it is hidden and not so obvious. If someone had severe mental anguish and hurt that wouldn't go away, under this scheme could such a sufferer go to Dr Allison and ask him to end it all for them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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