Roger Mexico Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 7 hours ago, Thomas Dalby said: Why can we not just address the question of whether a religious appointee should have the right to legislate on its own merits without having to link it to other reforms? I suspect because those who have an emotional attachment to tradition and the church hope that by trying to bring in other issues it can be deflected into the long grass. In my case it's the opposite I hope that keeping the anomaly of the Bishop's vote there will mean that pressure to reform LegCo more generally will continue. Otherwise it will just be a virtue-signalling reform, like Blair getting rid of most of the hereditary peers in 1999. Since then the Lords benches have just been refilled with cronies of various sorts, usually with no outside experience except for sucking up to the right people. In a lot of cases it's just about giving someone a pension for life. The very limited reforms after Lisvane have if anything made things worse. At least most of the previous MLCs had previously faced the electorate one time or other. Now it's just another way of giving power (or at least position) to yet more of the people who never need to take the views of the public into consideration. We see similar things happening with all these arms-length boards. Because the Bishop's membership is not dependent on the goodwill of our MHKs and their civil service masters, taking their vote away will if anything make the place a little less widely based. Which may be the intention. What we need for LegCo are politicians who are answerable to the people, not the other way round. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 18 hours ago, The Phantom said: I don't even know why she/the Church wants to be included in votes. Can anyone enlighten me? Simples. If any group of folks ever desperately needed a moral compass it has to be the current denizens of Tynwald... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 She's just finished a religious support stint in parliament. Can you imagine the furore if, say, the Conservatives had put forward a motion that she should get a vote equivalent to an MP there? That said, some MPs might well support such an idea...an affirmation of British cultural values and beliefs...kind of an official kick in the face to Islamists. But such a motion would likely still get rejected, not least, under the main argument of 'multi-cultural Britain'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-lane Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 The bishops get a vote in the House of Lords. As has been stated here, the only countries where this happens is Westminster, Iran and the IoM. Why does England not have a referendum to remove the bishops? Today's theory: Because the Muslims would start campaigning that having religious persons in Government is a good idea, and should be continued, and the Muslims want their share. And the Catholics. And the Church of the SubGenius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted May 18 Author Share Posted May 18 2 hours ago, Two-lane said: The bishops get a vote in the House of Lords Only some bishops. There’s equality and CofE (in)equality. its the The Archbishop of Canterbury, the Archbishop of York, the Bishops of London, Durham and Winchester and 21 other bishops in order of seniority of enthronement ( although women bishops get accelerated seniority, ie preference over the next male on a vacancy arising, until equality of numbers is achieved ). Retired ABofC and ABofY are normally given life peerages. There are 42 diocesan bishops, 73 Suffragan bishops and 17 bishops who have gone back to parish duties but are still in episcopal orders. So it’s 25 out of 132 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred the shred Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 She was on MR this morning now delighted that she is being called Trish the Bish she is certainly trying to reach out to whom I cannot guess 😂 she is even mentioning a T shirt with it on. She is certainly the absolute opposite from the last Bishop, Paterson had a good sense of humour and was very easy to get on with. It will be interesting to say the least seeing how far she will go to secure a vote in our hallowed halls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred the shred Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 Just now, Fred the shred said: She was on MR this morning now delighted that she is being called Trish the Bish she is certainly trying to reach out to whom I cannot guess 😂 she is even mentioning a T shirt with it on. She is certainly the absolute opposite from the last Bishop, Bishop Paterson had a good sense of humour and was very easy to get on with. It will be interesting to say the least seeing how far she will go to secure a vote in our hallowed halls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarndyce Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 (edited) 3 hours ago, Fred the shred said: She was on MR this morning now delighted that she is being called Trish the Bish she is certainly trying to reach out to whom I cannot guess 😂 she is even mentioning a T shirt with it on. She is certainly the absolute opposite from the last Bishop, Paterson had a good sense of humour and was very easy to get on with Not sure what you’re implying here. You’re not happy that she seems to have a sense of humour? You’re not happy that she’s trying to reach out (presumably to the listeners)? You’re not happy that she’s not as funny as Bishop Paterson? What was your point? 3 hours ago, Fred the shred said: It will be interesting to say the least seeing how far she will go to secure a vote in our hallowed halls You think talking about slogans on t-shirts on MR is actually canvassing for a vote in Tynwald? Well, OK… Edited May 18 by Jarndyce Spacing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Dalby Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 17 hours ago, Roger Mexico said: In my case it's the opposite I hope that keeping the anomaly of the Bishop's vote there will mean that pressure to reform LegCo more generally will continue. Otherwise it will just be a virtue-signalling reform, like Blair getting rid of most of the hereditary peers in 1999. Since then the Lords benches have just been refilled with cronies of various sorts, usually with no outside experience except for sucking up to the right people. In a lot of cases it's just about giving someone a pension for life. The very limited reforms after Lisvane have if anything made things worse. At least most of the previous MLCs had previously faced the electorate one time or other. Now it's just another way of giving power (or at least position) to yet more of the people who never need to take the views of the public into consideration. We see similar things happening with all these arms-length boards. Because the Bishop's membership is not dependent on the goodwill of our MHKs and their civil service masters, taking their vote away will if anything make the place a little less widely based. Which may be the intention. What we need for LegCo are politicians who are answerable to the people, not the other way round. Still the whataboutery argument. There is no reason why the distinct question of whether an appointee of a religious body should be entitled to legislate has to be conflated with the question of how elections to LegCo should be reformed. I doubt you would currently get consensus even among the anti-politicians here on how Legco should be reformed (or abolished). Personally I would be for wider reforms to Legco. I suspect some of the politicians voting to remove the Bishop’s vote would, and those who do not I would not regard as hypocrites because they are two distinct questions. But the idea that you can’t make one simple reform for which there may be support without making others for which there is not I do not find attractive. But the door is still wide open for anyone wishing to justify a religious appointee legislating for us because they support the idea per se Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moghrey Mie Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 Only one item on the order paper for LEGCO next week. https://www.tynwald.org.im/spfile?file=/business/bills/Bills/Isle-of-Man-Constitution-Bill-2023-Amended-in-Keys.pdf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barlow Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 Fun fact: Even as much as 50 years ago there were serious suggestions for a female Lieutenant Governor for the Isle of Man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 32 minutes ago, Barlow said: Fun fact: Even as much as 50 years ago there were serious suggestions for a female Lieutenant Governor for the Isle of Man. Would she be a Governess? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 On 6/6/2024 at 5:05 PM, Moghrey Mie said: Only one item on the order paper for LEGCO next week. https://www.tynwald.org.im/spfile?file=/business/bills/Bills/Isle-of-Man-Constitution-Bill-2023-Amended-in-Keys.pdf Moved another stage forward today in LegCo... https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/legislative-council-votes-to-progress-removal-of-bishops-vote/ Henderson voted against. Probably knows the public want the unelected waste of space he is out too...and he's next. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred the shred Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 A good result never heard of Paul Greenwood…… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moghrey Mie Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 (edited) 10 hours ago, Fred the shred said: A good result never heard of Paul Greenwood…… Peter Greenhill Says he is an expert in 'innovation and change'. But not in this case. Edited June 12 by Moghrey Mie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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