quilp Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 On 8/19/2009 at 10:12 AM, mollag said: We as a country had no problem backing and arming the Taleban, except when they allowed training camps for Bin Laden to operate. So we went to eradicate the Taleban and Bin Laden, seem we have failed in these aims. We promised to bring freedom and democracy to the Afghans, failed again. Karazai will go the same way as Nadji Bullah Like Iraq, we will scuttle away leaving the country to the warlord/ militias and claim a spin victory and mourn our wasted dead. As relevant now as it was back then... On 8/19/2009 at 11:03 PM, The Voice of Reason said: Problem with that is once one lot of fuckers have killed the other lot of fuckers off, they'll come after us. Not quite as relevant. 😄 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 So against the advice of his top advisors and other interested parties, Old Joe withdrew the majority of forces, and more importantly air support, at what seems like a moment's notice. It now transpires that the ANA have lost 66,000+ grunts and according to British military and other sources on the ground, Old Joe is wrong about them giving up without a fight and in reality those forces mostly put up a brave challenge against the Talebs in the final hours. The only thing maintaining the status quo in Afghanistan was the sophisticated allied intelligence gathering, air support and specialist artillery hardware. Once all that was no longer available, by order of OJ, little wonder the ANA did a runner. So on whose advice did Old Joe instigate the new orders, if not his usual military advisors? Who's working Joe Biden? CIA? NSA? PALITOY? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2bees Posted August 25, 2021 Share Posted August 25, 2021 Not looking too good at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted August 25, 2021 Share Posted August 25, 2021 I can't think of a bigger political/military shit-show in my lifetime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrighty Posted August 25, 2021 Share Posted August 25, 2021 23 minutes ago, Shake me up Judy said: I can't think of a bigger political/military shit-show in my lifetime. It's been going on longer than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted August 25, 2021 Share Posted August 25, 2021 1 hour ago, wrighty said: It's been going on longer than that. What has ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrighty Posted August 25, 2021 Share Posted August 25, 2021 4 minutes ago, Shake me up Judy said: What has ? The military shit-show dates back to before we were all born. Hasn’t there been civil war/occupation for centuries? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted August 25, 2021 Share Posted August 25, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, wrighty said: The military shit-show dates back to before we were all born. Hasn’t there been civil war/occupation for centuries? Yep, the country is completely unconquerable, it's the graveyard of empires. Alexander the Great/Romans/Mongols/Turks/British Empire/Russians all tried and failed. To be honest if the Afghans could stop fighting themselves, they'd probably be quite proud of their history and defiance. Someone should have looked at a history book before we got involved... Edited August 25, 2021 by The Phantom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted August 25, 2021 Share Posted August 25, 2021 (edited) That wonderful film of Kipling's short story The Man Who Would Be King says a lot about Afghanistan and imperial ambition. It still speaks to today's world and the current ignominious withdrawal. Edited August 25, 2021 by Shake me up Judy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted August 25, 2021 Share Posted August 25, 2021 1 hour ago, Shake me up Judy said: The Man Who Would Be King Neither heard of nor seen this. However wiki has convinced me that I should. I find anything about the British Empire fascinating... thanks for the recommendation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted August 25, 2021 Share Posted August 25, 2021 It's on YouTube but try and watch it in the best quality Blu-ray you can. You can probably buy a decent edition quite reasonably and you'll watch it several times. It's one hell of a film. Come back on and tell us what you thought of it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted August 25, 2021 Share Posted August 25, 2021 4 hours ago, wrighty said: The military shit-show dates back to before we were all born. Hasn’t there been civil war/occupation for centuries? Yes, a good two parter on this on BBC by Rory Stewart. It was made in 2012 so doesn't reflect the current circumstances, but it is a good potted history. Two invasions by Britain, one by Russia and the current one led by the US, all failed. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted August 25, 2021 Share Posted August 25, 2021 As old Joe Biden exclaimed emphatically, "the buck stops right here... with me!" And so it does. This was no organised withdrawal, even Boris was surprised and is now shitting the cavalry twills, dithering, wondering what to do, where to turn. NATO, with little stomach for a peace-keeping mission, even less a fight. The Talebs won't respect another military force, be it UN or other, anyway. The British army soldiering-on, in great danger now and worse if they're not out of there by the end of the month. Once the time-limit has passed, what takes place is anyone's guess. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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