When Skies Are Grey Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Who was the first to mention Mnt Everest...lest he be banned forever from this forum!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyv Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 231 since 1911 = 99 years of mountain road TT races - less 6 for WW2 and 1 for f&m = 92 races Also includes the MGP which is since 1923 = 87 years - less 7 above = 80 races Thus 231/(92+80) = 1.343 deaths per year whilst competitively racing the mountain course. To go further lets break that down to four weeks of racing per year or 10 practices and 6 races 1.343/16 = 0.0839 deaths per day. There are on average 45 bodies found in the Thames each year (Google) which is 45/365 = 0.123 per day So statistically you’ve more chance of ending up floating in the Thames than dying whilst competing in the TT and the MGP. Bless those stats. . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 At the Indianapolis 500 54 racers, team and track personnel have been killed since 1911. Plus, there have been 8 spectator deaths, including a 12-year-old. Your total is right, but I don't feel this comparison is particularly useful - 14 drivers have died in racing - the last one was in 1973. 24 drivers have died in practice - the last one in 1996. 5 Mechanics have died in racing - the last one in 1933. 7 Mechanics have died in practice - the last one in 1939. 4 Track Personel have died - the last one in 1973. And 8 spectators have died - the last one in 1987. LINK Looks to me like the Indy 500 has an admirable improvement in safety since the 1930s! In the 1930s there were 0.7 deaths per year of competition in the TT. Between 2000 and 2009 there were 1.77 deaths per year - in 2010 2 died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grant Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Who was the first to mention Mnt Everest...lest he be banned forever from this forum!! Everest seems quite safe, K2, 284 summit attempts, 66 deaths Annapurna, 153 attempts, 58 deaths Everest, 3684 attempts, 210 deaths Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
censorship Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 At the Indianapolis 500 54 racers, team and track personnel have been killed since 1911. Plus, there have been 8 spectator deaths, including a 12-year-old. Your total is right, but I don't feel this comparison is particularly useful - 14 drivers have died in racing - the last one was in 1973. 24 drivers have died in practice - the last one in 1996. 5 Mechanics have died in racing - the last one in 1933. 7 Mechanics have died in practice - the last one in 1939. 4 Track Personel have died - the last one in 1973. And 8 spectators have died - the last one in 1987. LINK Looks to me like the Indy 500 has an admirable improvement in safety since the 1930s! In the 1930s there were 0.7 deaths per year of competition in the TT. Between 2000 and 2009 there were 1.77 deaths per year - in 2010 2 died. But, there is one race a year with a field of 30 cars. The TT has, currently, 7 races if you combine sidecar and solos, and many more competitors starting (i think for the solos it is around 60/65). What it shows is there are so many variables that comparison between activities is futile. Another example is the world speed record for power boats. Currently the fatality rate is 85% - 85% of people who have tried to beta the record have died doing so. Statistically that has to make it one of the most dangerous things ever - however, how many people have actually done it? If its only a handful and a couple were absolute cocks who died due to stupidity rather than the inherent danger than the whole 'sport' is tarnished by misleading headline stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chief Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 unless i am very much mistaken, the states of AbuDhabi,Bahrain,China,Malaysia all put millions of pounds worth of state capital into building formula one tracks.I also believe that the indian and korean circuits have a certain amount of government funding in them. I guess what i am trying to say is that it's not just this government that state sponsor dangerous sport Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr blonde Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 231 since 1911 = 99 years of mountain road TT races - less 6 for WW2 and 1 for f&m = 92 races Also includes the MGP which is since 1923 = 87 years - less 7 above = 80 races Thus 231/(92+80) = 1.343 deaths per year whilst competitively racing the mountain course. To go further lets break that down to four weeks of racing per year or 10 practices and 6 races 1.343/16 = 0.0839 deaths per day. There are on average 45 bodies found in the Thames each year (Google) which is 45/365 = 0.123 per day So statistically you’ve more chance of ending up floating in the Thames than dying whilst competing in the TT and the MGP. Bless those stats. . . . So from that we can assume Boris Johnson is promoting tombstone tourism by promoting the Thames as a tourist attraction, 'Come and look at our beautiful river and drown / get dumped in it'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Login Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 It seems to me that some are arguing that as long as the TT is not top of the list for fatalities etc then it is OK. I do not care whether the TT is 1st 2nd, 100th or 1 millionth on the list of dangerous sports. What I am concerned about is the numer of fatalities and life changing injury. At present I find the number unacceptable, obviously many are not and are happy that several get killed and maimed every year in the name of sport and entertainment. When and if crashes causing fatalities or life changing injuries become a shock/surprise rather than an expected consequence of running the races then my view will change. Presently I am uncomfertable that we host in the nmae of entertainment and sport an event that we expect people to die or get maimed at! I would have similar view about any other event was expected to cause a similar results from a small number of participants however as I do not live where they take place nor do I pay for them via my taxes they are not something that is often at the for front of my attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sausages Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 The TT's not as dangerous to human life as Stalin. But it's definitely more dangerous than OJ Simpson. Probably on a par with Harold Shipman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr blonde Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 It seems to me that some are arguing that as long as the TT is not top of the list for fatalities etc then it is OK. I do not care whether the TT is 1st 2nd, 100th or 1 millionth on the list of dangerous sports. What I am concerned about is the numer of fatalities and life changing injury. At present I find the number unacceptable, obviously many are not and are happy that several get killed and maimed every year in the name of sport and entertainment. When and if crashes causing fatalities or life changing injuries become a shock/surprise rather than an expected consequence of running the races then my view will change. Presently I am uncomfertable that we host in the nmae of entertainment and sport an event that we expect people to die or get maimed at! I would have similar view about any other event was expected to cause a similar results from a small number of participants however as I do not live where they take place nor do I pay for them via my taxes they are not something that is often at the for front of my attention. I don't expect but I do accept. There is a difference. The same difference that the riders themselves will see I guess! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sausages Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Speed bumps are the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian rush Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Rather than the usual facetious mountaineering, short-circuit, Everest, horse-riding etc. comparisons, which don't really advance the debate, I have had a look at *where* competitors have actually been killed whilst racing on the circuit and the numbers involved at the main places (some of which surprised me) - according to Wiki so possibly not strictly accurate - were as follows:- 15 Birkins/Rhencullen 11 33rd milestone 10 Alpine Cottage (presumably this includes the whol of the run into Ballaugh) 9 Union Mills 8 Glen Helen 8 Glentramman 6 Ballagarey 6 Quarry Bends 5 East Mountain Gate 4 Greeba Castle 4 Hillberry 4 32nd milestone If the debate is to move on and the risks be minmised (if that is possible on a bike capable of 180mph) might some form of modification be appropriate at the worst spots...? The debate at present seems to be all or nothing about whether the TT should continue or not. The circuit evolves each year e.g. Quarry Bends, Brandish and Windy Corner as measures adding to the speed and reducing track length ever so slightly, so I don't believe there should be any reason why the course should be considered sacrosanct. BTW, I'm someone who is fairly ambivalent about the TT - great spectacle, people stay with me and my family (spectators and competitors/support) and I go out and spectate but it's something I wouldn't be sad to see the back of, particularly having seen the mess it leaves behind for friends / families to deal with even if the funerals I've been to over here have not been too close to home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian rush Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 The only other thing I would add is that the TT is state-promoted (presumably in the name of the populace as a whole) via DCCL (tourist promotion), DOI (road improvements), Paul Phillips and his crew, road closure orders, policing and with the Department of Health picking up the immediate pieces of accidents. Obviously if this were a privately run thing the arguments about the role of the state would be non-existent. It's also interesting to compare some of the nonsense pedalled by the Government about certain legal and illegal substances and this event they organise... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spangle Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Yawn!!! What an interesting point you raise. Clearly a person capable of deep thought. As interesting as the rest which is regurgitated bollocks that is revived every few months under a new thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesultanofsheight Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 I guess what i am trying to say is that it's not just this government that state sponsor dangerous sport Correct - other wasteful autocratic governments with sketchy human rights records like AbuDhabi, Bahrain, China, and Malaysia do it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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