Two PokerStars Announcements: IOM Chess Tournament and 2014 Poker Tournament

[Vulgarian]

You can bet on football, does that make football gambling?

 

Uh.. no. Gambling on football is gambling. Poker without gambling is not gambling, but people seldom play poker without gambling. It is much less of a problem if they don't gamble because the reward mechanism which is at the root of addiction is not as active.

 

Cocaine isn't actually addictive...

 

Yes it is. It is psychologically addictive. If you don't think that is real, ask a coke addict.

 

Lots of things are addictive and damaging in excess, from booze and fags to running or eating doughnuts. Yes these activities should be closely watched and guidence given if they become damaging, but you are not my moral guardian and I don't need your standards to decide what I can handle in terms of promotion.

 

I'm not trying to say that people shouldn't be allowed to gamble. There's no need to be so reactionary. I haven't even said that gaming companies shouldn't be allowed to advertise. I have only expressed my concerns about their role in supporting and creating gambling addiction, and questioned their moral responsibility in their enterprise, which I think is pretty fucking shoddy.

[CBman]

Ok level playing field and all that micro gaming sponsor the Isle of Man cycling team, that's Micro Gaming and if they don't sponsor that team its just a free plug for Micro Gaming.

[ans]

Much threadshitting.

[Slim]

Uh.. no. Gambling on football is gambling. Poker without gambling is not gambling, but people seldom play poker without gambling. It is much less of a problem if they don't gamble because the reward mechanism which is at the root of addiction is not as active.

Nonsense, 'free play' poker is massive, on facebook, on xbox live and on pokerstars for points. Hardly 'seldom play' at all.

I'm not trying to say that people shouldn't be allowed to gamble. There's no need to be so reactionary. I haven't even said that gaming companies shouldn't be allowed to advertise. I have only expressed my concerns about their role in supporting and creating gambling addiction, and questioned their moral responsibility in their enterprise, which I think is pretty fucking shoddy.

I think you're being selective. Don't see you criticising the brewery for sponsoring events while producing addictive substances. Keep your moral high ground by all means but please don't deprive the rest of us of the community involvement of companies like pokerstars and microgaming because of your wonky logic.

[Lonan3]

 

But Poker is a game and a sport , just like tennis etc . why not promote it ?

 

A sport is a formalised physical challenge or contest. .I'm guessing you missed the England v Denmark game last night?

 

It's a very different thing from saying, 'there will be a free tennis tournament this weekend'. Oh, no! What if Cliff Richard turned up and started to sing? All those women in their early 90s having death orgasms!

 

A better comparison would be, 'there will be a cocaine snorting competition this weekend at the Villa' I've never tried it but, what the hell! Where do I sign up?

[Vulgarian]

I think you're being selective. Don't see you criticising the brewery for sponsoring events while producing addictive substances. Keep your moral high ground by all means but please don't deprive the rest of us of the community involvement of companies like pokerstars and microgaming because of your wonky logic.

 

I'm being selective inasmuch as this thread is about gambling, and I'm talking about gambling. I would certainly have a few things to say about the way alcohol and other damaging things are advertised and promoted by companies in collusion with governments too. You say "please don't deprive the rest of us of the community involvement of companies" as though I have some sort of influence in the matter. I don't. I'm just putting my view across.

 

As far as their "community involvement" goes, why do you think a gambling company would involve itself in community projects and events? Out of good will? Or because they want to improve the public's perception of what they know to be a dirty and morally questionable business, and to build a positive brand image? To normalise gambling with the public, and encourage people to try it.

[wrighty]

 

Uh.. no. Gambling on football is gambling. Poker without gambling is not gambling, but people seldom play poker without gambling. It is much less of a problem if they don't gamble because the reward mechanism which is at the root of addiction is not as active.

Nonsense, 'free play' poker is massive, on facebook, on xbox live and on pokerstars for points. Hardly 'seldom play' at all.

'Free play' poker is pointless - if you're not at risk of losing money you can just bet on everything and you can't bluff as you'll always be called. You may as well just deal out the cards face up and biggest hand takes the pot.

[thommo2010]

 

I think you're being selective. Don't see you criticising the brewery for sponsoring events while producing addictive substances. Keep your moral high ground by all means but please don't deprive the rest of us of the community involvement of companies like pokerstars and microgaming because of your wonky logic.

 

I'm being selective inasmuch as this thread is about gambling, and I'm talking about gambling. I would certainly have a few things to say about the way alcohol and other damaging things are advertised and promoted by companies in collusion with governments too. You say "please don't deprive the rest of us of the community involvement of companies" as though I have some sort of influence in the matter. I don't. I'm just putting my view across.

 

As far as their "community involvement" goes, why do you think a gambling company would involve itself in community projects and events? Out of good will? Or because they want to improve the public's perception of what they know to be a dirty and morally questionable business, and to build a positive brand image? To normalise gambling with the public, and encourage people to try it.

 

Take a day off

 

People who enjoy poker will play people who don't won't it's not hard. Yes there is an lement of gambling in Poker however why are the same people alwyas at the top earnings in the game? are they just the luckiest people on earth?

 

Thanks for the update Michael I will be in again this year provided I can get time off work. Had a great time last year

[Declan]

So for clarity, we can now not mention

 

Parish Walk - sponsored by Manx Telecom

End to End Challenge - - sponsored by Manx Telecom

TT - sponsored by all and sundry

Blues Festival - Domicilium

 

and so on and so forth....

Don't be obtuse. We can discuss those things and the poker. The marketing teams from the sponsoring firms shouldn't be starting threads to promote their business.

[Dreidel Dreidelsohn]

Something I've always wondered about PokerStars.

 

Who or what are the "stars"?

[Lonan3]

They're those twinkly little things in the sky at night. God made them, y'know.

[Amadeus]

Vulgarian, you obviously had some bad experiences regarding this and it seems to me that shaped your view. You could in the same way post against alcohol or cannabis, but gambling seems to be your bugbear. Fair enough. Problem is that Poker is more and more being acknowledged as a game of skill. Stars did a famous ad years ago along the lines of 'if it's a game of luck, then why do the same faces pop up at the final tables all the time', referring to professional players on the poker circuit. A few of my friends are professional players and they couldn't be if it was all down to luck.

 

You don't like gambling or anything that you consider gambling, fair enough, but again you have to realize a lot of people do. Poker is still a popular sport. People enjoy playing for free or for real, online and offline. A small percentage of players will develop a problem with it, but there is help available for them.

 

Again, times have changed in regards to player protection. Stars has to stick to the same strict rules as all IOM licensed operators. You also have to be an adult to play. IOM makes an activity enjoyed by millions (if you like it or not) as safe as it can be, and next to it supports the local community. Nobody is forcing them to do that. Your mental picture of the people running gaming operations is clearly not in line with reality anymore. I'm sorry for any bad experiences you had with the industry in the past but they are not representative of it as a whole.

 

It sounds like they are sponsoring two nice local events and I can't see anything wrong with a news release about that here. Enough people around who always complain there's nothing happening on the island, so anything to change that perception is good.

[Vulgarian]

Don't try to misrepresent me. I never said that I am against gambling. It can be healthy, like most other things, in moderation. Nor is it gambling in particular that I have concerns about. I am concerned about the exploitation of vulnerable people, and here we are talking about people with dependency issues. I could well pick up on similar issues with drugs and alcohol. In fact, I see strong parallels with the way that the gaming industry seeks to influence public perception of gambling through advertising, sponsorship, and involvement in community and politics, and the way that alcohol and tobacco companies have done the same.

 

Society is gradually being weened off the highly addictive drug that is nicotine which was, up until very recently, successfully marketed by the tobacco industry with the collusion of governments in the pursuit of profit, disregarding their knowledge that tobacco smoking was causing serious health problem. The turn-around in public perception has been aided by information campaigns and regulation.

 

Meanwhile alcohol abuse is still socially acceptable. A strong force in creating and maintaining this situation is marketing carried out of the alcohol industry. We see efforts being made to alleviate this vast social problem with information campaigns and regulation; thought regulation of the alcohol industry is not as stringent as that of tobacco, especially when it comes to advertising.

 

Poker does indeed contain an element of skill, but it is also a game which involves a lot of chance, and the wagering of sums of money. It is gambling. Gambling addiction does not rely on chance being involved in any case; it is the reward mechanism which creates a pleasurable feeling when the gambler wins something that is the basis of their addiction. We know that gambling operates on the brain in a very similar way to drugs, and we are aware of the social and personal problems that gambling addiction can cause.

 

Yet the growing gaming industry is being supported and encouraged by the Manx government. We see gaming companies engaging in the same sort of PR aimed at altering public and political perception of gambling to allow them to operate with fewer restrictions, and encourage and normalise gambling in the public mind. Sponsorships, involvement in the community, events, donations to charity, repeated emphasis of the benefits of the industry to the economy. That is why this thread was started.

 

Now is the time to be looking at the like cases of tobacco, drugs, and alcohol, and questioning the wisdom of collaborating with this industry, both as individuals and as a society.

[Declan]

Let's set aside the gambling debate for a moment.

 

Are we saying it's ok for the marketing department to begin threads for events they're organising? Threads headed "XYZ Limited Announce..." ?

 

Where does that activity become spam? When it ceases to have a local connection? When there's no public interest in the thing being promoted?

 

If a multi-national company is going to promote commercial events through a volunteer run, donation funded website, shouldn't they make a contribution through advertising or subscription?

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Yeah coz PokerStars need the free advertising of the forum!!

They need any advertising they can get and if there is a free advertising or a free place to plug their company and what it is doing then it is common sense to make use of it.

 

 

Once could argue that this is merely highlighting an event that they are sponsoring/hosting....not advertising the company per se.

If you wanted to go down that road then surely any local event which had a headline sponsor would be prevented from being talked about.

Pedants rule!

Any company that goes out of its way to post events itself ought to be prevented, definitely. That's something different to a Parish Walk or TT for example, which isn't arranged or organised by a company.

 

Sponsorship is arranged for the primary purpose of advertising or (more often) by trying to make it seems like a company is good and friendly. Unfortunately, it works. This is no surprise. In a community where people are so politically impoverished, they don't use their brain and cynical approach the issue of sponshorship. I have heard Pokerstars having been referred to as a respectable company. Why? Because of the sponsorship it does.