Hong Kong Pro-Democracy Demonstrations

[Chinahand]

It is going to be interesting seeing how China responds to the pro-democracy protests in Hong Kong.

 

I wonder if ScotsAlan can read this thread - assuming he's still in GZ! The authorities have been censoring the news reports very heavily in Chinese.

 

I presume the authorities will try and wait them out, but they were heavy handed last night and the result was a surge in demonstrators coming onto the streets in support of the tear-gassed students.

 

There's not a clear way out. The Chinese government has insisted in its right on vetting any candidates for Hong Kong's Chief Executive. If the demonstrators force them the change this policy it sets a strong precedent for pro-democracy campaigners in the mainland.

 

But if there is violence it damages China's image.

 

So how can they get the demonstrators to compromise? And if so by offering what concessions.

 

Direct democracy has been denied the Hong Kong people for a long time - both by the British and the Chinese.

 

I hope they'll get it, but that needs China to trust the electorate, something they aren't willing to do.

 

Interesting times!!

 

 

 

[Amadeus]

Fascinating development. No idea how this will play out and there must be plenty of meetings taking place at party HQ right now. Damaging this financial hub must be a prime point of concern. Money always comes first, especially with China, and I wouldn't be surprised if they crush it.

[GD4ELI]

My guess is that at some stage the new, educated, wealthy and informed classes will just say they've had enough and the one party system will dissolve.

 

And when this happens China really will take over the world.

[Barrie Stevens]

Hong Kong has become to some extent expendable in the sense that China has decided and is actively promoting Shanghai as the future place from which to launch its currency as a tradable one on the global markets....The world is being prepared for this change.

 

There has long been pressure for China to do this. The international community will be pleased to see it happen and for Beijing to slowly put end to the present artificial situation which serves to give China unfair advantages and protection from market forces.

 

China is being cautious but basically notice has been given that the clock is being turned back to when Shanghai was China's international city and cosmopolitan business centre...If they decide to make the Yuan Renminbi (Or whatever they call it now!)...fully convertible then they want to inspire confidence and have control and certainly not have the currency associated with a bolshie quasi democracy like HK.

 

Hong Kong's present status was an expediency. It is now being reminded as to who is boss. Little bit of shaking the foundations. Beijing agreed to the Hong Kong deal when it suited but now the former British colony is slowly being taken down a peg or losing face as they say...It may be clumsy but HK is " getting the message" in advance of Shanghai becoming the place to be.

 

I lived in Hong Kong many, many years ago and the Chinese and indeed Europeans who escaped from Shanghai some on the last 'plane were wont to say that Hong Kong was an aberration. One day Shanghai would regain its place once China settled down.

[Tugger]

I reckon CY Leung will be forced to fall on his sword for failing to control it. So it will be portrayed as a decisive, punitive measure by Beijing, while being sold as some form of compromise to the protestors.

 

They won't cede control over the candidates' list in any shape or form going forward.

 

I don't think it will kick off again. It's all very good natured and the demonstrators, unlike their counterparts elsewhere, are not going to run riot and loot stores.

 

The fly in the ointment for the above analysis is that hordes of mainlanders are about to descend on Hong Kong for the National Day holidays, and Beijing might not want them to see what you can get away with in the second of the "two systems", in case they think of trying it in the first.

[Donald Trumps]

Why don't they have an online election & put up their own candidates?

[Lxxx]

Global trend now. Love it. Shows that people around the world are wanting more say in their own lives. I see Madrid are trying to crush the proposed Catalonia referendum too, so soon after the failed Scots one. Be interesting to see how China responds now.

[ScotsAlan]

Contrary to popular belief, BBC is not blocked in China at the moment. I can get the headlines, but sometimes when I click to read more I get a 404 ( not at all uncommon here), or I actually get the linked story in full.

 

I would say it's 50/50 blocked/unblocked at the moment. But to be honest this is not a story that excites me so I have not really been following it. Just the bare essentials.

 

There is a Chinese based forum I contribute to on the mainland, and I have seen a lot of posts on this subject deleted. Not by the Government, but by the webmaster who owns the site. He needs to keep open after all to bring in the advertising revenue.

 

My own opinion?

 

I personally think this is another British Empire fuck up. The election rules were designed by the British to give Hong Kongers a certain amount of say, but not enough say that could have seen Westminster voted out.

 

If Westminster is now demanding China give full suffrage to the people of HK, why did they not do it while they had the chance? I suspect there was a deal struck before the handover......... China told the Brits no Universal suffrage, and in return China said the UK can keep it's banks there and we will allow HK to be autonomous.

 

After all, most of the money invested into China goes through HK. It's almost impossible to get money out of China unless it goes through there.

 

Students?

 

Yup. It has to be a student protest because China has a proud history of students leading the revolution. Politically, students are powerful, they are the future after all. Maybe many of the protesters in HK are mainland students? Nope, I doubt that very much.

 

Hong Kong people don't like mainland people. They see them as dirty, rude, ignorant........ and too rich. There are lots of stories in the press here about HKrs almost lynching mainlanders for allowing their kids to piss on the street etc.

 

Censorship in mainland China?

 

Yeah, instagram in banned. My wife says that is a recent ban, but we don't use it so I can't comment.

 

As I said above, BBC headlines ok, stories 50/50.

 

Facebook, twitter, flickr....... been banned always.

 

Google was banned again this summer. Full ban, gmail, google translate, google maps.... they don't work.

 

I have been more interested in the Tory conference myself. By gosh, they seem to be using China as a role model for what new laws they want.

 

Of course, in China there is no actual rule of law as westerners know it. There is only one law, one rule. Do not upset the party.

 

Oh, as a matter of interest. In the Scottish vote week, I had loads of Chinese friends ask me questions about it. They were glued to their computers as the results come in. The HK protests, not a single person has mentioned it to me. And I have not talked to anyone about it either. Such is the power of Mel Gibson :-)

 

 

That's my report from China, just up the river from where the action is :-)

[ScotsAlan]

Just to add.Occupy central should but out.

 

 

The students should go do there protesting in Victoria Park. Their current location is not the best choice.

[Chinahand]

Drones really are transforming media - it makes it very difficult for the Hong Kong Authorities to play down the numbers of people protesting.

And for every person there many others have gone to work, but worn black in a silent mark of support.

http://emp.bbc.co.uk/emp/embed/smpEmbed.html?playlist=http%3A%2F%2Fplaylists.bbc.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fworld-asia-29421914A%2Fplaylist.sxml&title=Hong%20Kong%20protest%3A%20Drone%20captures%20scale%20of%20protest&product=news

Erm does this embedding work?

[ScotsAlan]

yup. I clicked your link and got the header. On my phone. But I cant play the video because my ip adress indicates me as not being a license payer.

[ScotsAlan]

screenshot from mobile phone in china.

[ScotsAlan]

big fail from chinahand. I am not a wumao.

[ScotsAlan]

I can confirm that bbc is still not blocked in China today.

[Chinahand]

BBC Chinese?

 

The Chinese authorities are wonderfully elitist. Got enough dosh for a 5 star hotel or the ability to read English you can access CNN from the Hilton and read (some of)* the BBC on line.

 

But giving the great access to info in Chinese no thank you it has to be from behind the Great Fire Wall.

 

*Alan, Can you click through and read the actual BBC reporting on the demos rather than what's the BBC front page?

 

Also can you get the FT Chinese service? Or is that also verboten?