GelusionTheDog Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 'The spectacle of what is called religion, or at any rate organised religion, in India and elsewhere, has filled me with horror and I have frequently condemned it and wished to make a clean sweep of it. Almost always it seemed to stand for blind belief and reaction, dogma and bigotry, superstition, exploitation and the preservation of vested interests.' Jawaharlal Nehru, first Prime Minister of India AMEN to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornetman Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 How about possession by demons for starters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llap Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Chinahand, you can't even win a debate with a flat earther and now you want to take on the world's religions? Lol, OK. Let's begin with your refutation of supernaturalism. Rather than argument from incredulity, back up your scepticism. I await an intelligible argument before I'll waste my time entering into this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Taylor Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 oooooooh big word alert !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManxTaxPayer Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 This thread will now probably descend into pointless surrealism which is a shame as I think the OP deserves more pointed consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paswt Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 My mate Harry reckons that opinions are like orgasms some (most?) folk think theirs are more important . Frankly I think folk can believe whatever they like as long as they don't insist that others share their beliefs/tastes (and insist that if they don't they are stupid etc etc) . The sad thing is that society seems to think that the word of a person who asserts that they have "religious beliefs" is more credible than that of a non believer/pagan/ etc. History has shown that some of the most despicable people have professed to have been a devout 'whatever' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornetman Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 The problem is that those with faith believe they have immunity from the norms that the rest of us have to live by. Their faith removes them from the normal parameters and that is expected to be acceptable because 'they have faith' or are 'spiritual'. Out of all the replies - I'm curious about this - what normal parameters do you think their (my) faith removes? Rationality. In all other things we rely on evidence to form our beliefs, but with religion the need for evidence is ignored. And those who believe owing to faith perversely think that faith is a good think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 (and insist that if they don't they are stupid etc etc) Exactly - as you might be wrong and then who would look stupid? But if you're are the believer you're the one who thinks you know the truth and thinks you are right about something existed. You're the one who has to do the leg-work to show what you think is right, otherwise it is to be respected no more than some daft person who thinks invisible unicorns live in their wardrobe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paswt Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 I may be considered "daft" by some folk when I visit a grave ,for a 'chat' , I don't feelI have to justify my actions to anyone. Some people choose a lifestyle /pastime that I would not be interested in 'enjoying',but for me to dismiss them publicly as "daft" may cause offence ....... we need all the "daft" people we can , they make such a refreshing change from the boring self appointed experts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 We're not talking just about lifestyles and pastimes. Religious people think they know about the world - that it has a God, with intentions and plans, etc. If they can't explain why they think that other than just say it's faith then their belief is daft. Whatever behaviour they get up to because of this belief is also daft. I do admit. That it would be a more interesting world if people believed in Manx fairies and bugganes and stuff like that. Spooky stuff. But if we're interested in knowing what is the truth and what is not then don't believe these things. And we've stopped believing in bugganes and fairies for this reason. It's just a lot of people still believe in something very similar - a God of some desert tribe who lived thousands of years. Because this God comes with promises and hopes people hold on to it and dispense with wanting to find out what is true - they just claim it is. It's just a toy that adults aren't prepared to let go. And it's daft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 I could be, and probably am, wrong but doesn't it say fairly early on in the bible that god left the earth, giving it to men, and he'll see the worthy ones later in heaven? So that any christian who thinks that god has a plan for them on earth has missed a fairly important bit out? Or am I just making stuff up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrighty Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 @LDV - we debated on here some time ago the utility of meditation - me thinking it's a pointless load of bunk, and you (almost) convincing me that it's not. Could prayer be considered a form of meditation, at least for some? Even though I think we agree that it's not rational to think of prayer as asking for favours from an omniscient superpower, perhaps prayer helps some get their heads round things and clear their minds etc, in the same way that meditation does it for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 I don't know. The form of meditation I was talking about was the zen stuff, which is like training the mind to stay in the present and stop thinking about the past and future. I don't know if prayer could be a form of a different type of meditation for other people. But I've never understood meditation as 'getting your head round things', though what I did explain to you is something that does clear the mind. I have no problem if prayer is devoid of any thinking about a God though. But I have never met anyone who prays but doesn't believe in a God. I know of a friend who prays because she thinks a God might exist, which is just as silly. But I've never met an atheist who prays. Pray is done with a form of thinking that include an idea of a God being involved with the person somehow and listening. I would not have thought it prayer without that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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