Interesting at the airport !

[Utah 01]

Three decisions are possibly being questioned.

 

The first has to be whether or not the aircraft was taxied at Ronaldsway in wind conditions outside its limits for ground operation. I don't know what time the flight departed but at 0720 at Ronaldsway the wind was nothing extraordinary and a departure, per se, was probably a reasonable decision.

 

The second question relates to was what happening in Belfast and the decision to return to the Island. The wind at Belfast City from 0800 yesterday, particularly the forecast gusts, were always probably outside the LET's crosswind landing limits but there is nothing fundamentally wrong with going and 'have a look'; it is possible that the wind given on final approach could have reduced to within limits. Nevertheless, the captain might have considered 'handling problems' once on the ground at Belfast City.

 

However, a logical diversion then, given that the forecast for Ronaldsway was always deteriorating, might have been Belfast Aldergrove where the wind suited runway 35, never exceeding 45kts and, at 0920, had reduced to gusts to 'only' 37kts. Perhaps 'ground handling' was again on the captain's mind but from an operational perspective Aldergrove would have been the most obvious diversion. Perhaps there were 'commercial' considerations at play?

 

So the third questionable decision was to do away with the Aldergrove option and come back to Ronaldsway. Landing was out at Belfast City due crosswinds (good decision), Aldergrove was discounted (why?) but to return into forecast stronger winds? Ronaldsway actual for 0950 gave the wind as 300/43 gust 60. The worst case gust gives a crosswind of 39kts which has to be outside the aircraft's limits and gusts of 60kts is definitely outside the ground taxiing limits (for almost any aircraft).

[Gladys]

Are we sure the return to do with the weather?

[madmanxpilot]

I've flown with them plenty of times and my daughter flies with them regularly.

 

I've found them generally very accommodating from a service perspective. Their flights usually go (rather than developing questionable technical faults when coincidentially they are not that full) and they are on time and reliable. Their prices tend to be ok too, especially if booked within a reasonably advanced time frame.

 

The routes are OK too. Blackpool is a much under rated access to the north west IMHO.

There in lies the issue. They go when they shouldn't. This is often perceived as a good thing by those who are ill informed.

[asitis]

Three decisions are possibly being questioned.

 

The first has to be whether or not the aircraft was taxied at Ronaldsway in wind conditions outside its limits for ground operation. I don't know what time the flight departed but at 0720 at Ronaldsway the wind was nothing extraordinary and a departure, per se, was probably a reasonable decision.

 

The second question relates to was what happening in Belfast and the decision to return to the Island. The wind at Belfast City from 0800 yesterday, particularly the forecast gusts, were always probably outside the LET's crosswind landing limits but there is nothing fundamentally wrong with going and 'have a look'; it is possible that the wind given on final approach could have reduced to within limits. Nevertheless, the captain might have considered 'handling problems' once on the ground at Belfast City.

 

However, a logical diversion then, given that the forecast for Ronaldsway was always deteriorating, might have been Belfast Aldergrove where the wind suited runway 35, never exceeding 45kts and, at 0920, had reduced to gusts to 'only' 37kts. Perhaps 'ground handling' was again on the captain's mind but from an operational perspective Aldergrove would have been the most obvious diversion. Perhaps there were 'commercial' considerations at play?

 

So the third questionable decision was to do away with the Aldergrove option and come back to Ronaldsway. Landing was out at Belfast City due crosswinds (good decision), Aldergrove was discounted (why?) but to return into forecast stronger winds? Ronaldsway actual for 0950 gave the wind as 300/43 gust 60. The worst case gust gives a crosswind of 39kts which has to be outside the aircraft's limits and gusts of 60kts is definitely outside the ground taxiing limits (for almost any aircraft).

 

Prestwick was a very close alternate too, runway 31 more or less down the track !

[notwell]

 

I've flown with them plenty of times and my daughter flies with them regularly.

 

I've found them generally very accommodating from a service perspective. Their flights usually go (rather than developing questionable technical faults when coincidentially they are not that full) and they are on time and reliable. Their prices tend to be ok too, especially if booked within a reasonably advanced time frame.

 

The routes are OK too. Blackpool is a much under rated access to the north west IMHO.

There in lies the issue. They go when they shouldn't. This is often perceived as a good thing by those who are ill informed.

 

What proof do you have of that?

[j2bad]

The small planes, the crew who don't speak much of da english, the scary pre flight safety video presented by children, the lack of pressurising in the cabin making my ears sear with pain, the constant noise though-out, and to top it off playing Harold Lloyd performing death defying stunts on the screen in-flight.

 

Terrifying but strangely compelling.

[woolley]

The small planes, the crew who don't speak much of da english, the scary pre flight safety video presented by children, the lack of pressurising in the cabin making my ears sear with pain, the constant noise though-out, and to top it off playing Harold Lloyd performing death defying stunts on the screen in-flight.

 

Terrifying but strangely compelling.

Think of Alex and Beth. It comes as part of the job for them.

[lfc84]

 

 

I've flown with them plenty of times and my daughter flies with them regularly.

 

I've found them generally very accommodating from a service perspective. Their flights usually go (rather than developing questionable technical faults when coincidentially they are not that full) and they are on time and reliable. Their prices tend to be ok too, especially if booked within a reasonably advanced time frame.

 

The routes are OK too. Blackpool is a much under rated access to the north west IMHO.

There in lies the issue. They go when they shouldn't. This is often perceived as a good thing by those who are ill informed.

 

What proof do you have of that?

 

 

 

Cork ?

[swoopy2110]

 

 

 

I've flown with them plenty of times and my daughter flies with them regularly.

 

I've found them generally very accommodating from a service perspective. Their flights usually go (rather than developing questionable technical faults when coincidentially they are not that full) and they are on time and reliable. Their prices tend to be ok too, especially if booked within a reasonably advanced time frame.

 

The routes are OK too. Blackpool is a much under rated access to the north west IMHO.

There in lies the issue. They go when they shouldn't. This is often perceived as a good thing by those who are ill informed.

 

What proof do you have of that?

 

 

 

Cork ?

 

 

Cork was operated by 'AirLada' based in Spain

 

Yesterday's flight was operated by a totally different airline trained by different people

[woolley]

So what's the common factor?

[WTF]

 

[WTF]

 

 

 

 

I've flown with them plenty of times and my daughter flies with them regularly.

 

I've found them generally very accommodating from a service perspective. Their flights usually go (rather than developing questionable technical faults when coincidentially they are not that full) and they are on time and reliable. Their prices tend to be ok too, especially if booked within a reasonably advanced time frame.

 

The routes are OK too. Blackpool is a much under rated access to the north west IMHO.

There in lies the issue. They go when they shouldn't. This is often perceived as a good thing by those who are ill informed.

 

What proof do you have of that?

 

 

 

Cork ?

 

 

Cork was operated by 'AirLada' based in Spain

 

Yesterday's flight was operated by a totally different airline trained by different people

 

 

what the names on the planes and the name of the operators are isn't the issue, the operating practices used are the common contributory factor bought about by the tight margins at that end of the aviation industry. money is the issue.

[madmanxpilot]

 

 

I've flown with them plenty of times and my daughter flies with them regularly.

 

I've found them generally very accommodating from a service perspective. Their flights usually go (rather than developing questionable technical faults when coincidentially they are not that full) and they are on time and reliable. Their prices tend to be ok too, especially if booked within a reasonably advanced time frame.

 

The routes are OK too. Blackpool is a much under rated access to the north west IMHO.

There in lies the issue. They go when they shouldn't. This is often perceived as a good thing by those who are ill informed.

What proof do you have of that?

Plenty.

[notwell]

Go on then. Let's hear it.

[swoopy2110]

 

 

 

 

 

I've flown with them plenty of times and my daughter flies with them regularly.

 

I've found them generally very accommodating from a service perspective. Their flights usually go (rather than developing questionable technical faults when coincidentially they are not that full) and they are on time and reliable. Their prices tend to be ok too, especially if booked within a reasonably advanced time frame.

 

The routes are OK too. Blackpool is a much under rated access to the north west IMHO.

There in lies the issue. They go when they shouldn't. This is often perceived as a good thing by those who are ill informed.

 

What proof do you have of that?

 

 

 

Cork ?

 

 

Cork was operated by 'AirLada' based in Spain

 

Yesterday's flight was operated by a totally different airline trained by different people

 

 

what the names on the planes and the name of the operators are isn't the issue, the operating practices used are the common contributory factor bought about by the tight margins at that end of the aviation industry. money is the issue.

 

Don't disagree with you at all. I suppose that's why people are quick to overlook booking Flybe flights operated by Stobart Air, BA operated by Eastern etc.

 

However.. I don't have any proof to suggest that Van Air are doing anything wrong

 

Until we know more about what this actual 'incident' was yesterday then I don't know what more we can say