Rally Under Threat...

[Gizo]

On 7/30/2018 at 11:03 AM, Max Power said:

I feel that this is a hangover from our glorious sporting past. We once had high calibre people organising events and putting in a great deal of their own professional time in doing so. We now have a vacuum which has been filled by people who benefited from those events without ever understanding or appreciating just how much work and commitment their forebears put into organising things such as the Rothmans Manx International, The Manx National, The International Six Days Trial, The Douglas Head and Ramsey Scrambles, The Willaston Sprint, Manx International Cycle Week etc etc etc.  

What has made things worse is the advent of a blame culture and H&S, which the previous people may have taken in their stride but many are now found wanting. There are also insufficient capable volunteers just willing to fill the ranks of marshals and other officials. We tend to try to make these jobs suit the individual rather than be able to find individuals to fit the job!

Or, in the ‘old days’ they winged it and got away with it and since regulation and H&s, nobody can be arsed jumping through hoops, filling out forms, putting their names to legal documents. 

[piebaps]

This FOI was published today and the attachments show a history of persistent problems and apparently nobody from the rally side addressing them.

https://iom.icasework.com/servlet/ep.getImg?ref=183401&bin=Y&auth=0&db=ZVD1ZPdIGvo%3D&access_token=ky1mwltH2UgDlRDjrVrs3L7RURboN6Gb4FNWiurN9xdZq8NaNsR3m-HFx813IQw7.x5Y0-wnTOG-_0MLmu3KZYg%3D%3D

The one that shocked me most was the incident on Marine Drive and rally control buggering off home before it was finalized.

[Mr Helmut Fromage]

59 minutes ago, piebaps said:

The one that shocked me most was the incident on Marine Drive and rally control buggering off home before it was finalized.

Really - I was shocked that a Civil Servant got off his arse and moved a road sign (probably booked half an hour flexi time though)

[dilligaf]

I am absolutely gob smacked that some faceless, chinless wonders can sit at the DOI boardroom /canteen table and actually say that they would be worried if they had to attend a coroners inquest into a death at a rally, having given the OK to the road closures

 These are the same chinless wonders who rubberstamp the TT , MGP, S100 Jurby Road races etc.

Did none of them go to any of the inquests where some poor soul had lost his head, arm, leg etc ? That is a far too common occurrence and the buck should stop with those who sanction the road closures and so called safety plans.

This defies belief.

About 270 people have died in bike races given the go ahead by Government and unless I am very much mistaken only one person has died in a rally over here.

( one in Karting and one in the vintage sprint too )

 I am so glad this "freedom of information" info has come out as it show some of these idiotic civil servants for the wastes of space and money they really are.

 If the rally organisers are slow in giving the required info to the DOI, kick their arses, warn them or even, god forbid , help them to finalise the planned event.

The way the DOI team have behaved is nothing short of scandalous.

They should all hang their heads in shame

 

[piebaps]

Sorry dilli I don't agree.

If someone wants a road closure then the onus is on them to get their house in order. RallyIOM clearly wasn't in order and hadn't been for some years. There appears to have been plenbty of cajoling etc and nothing had changed.

Comparing it to TT isn't a useful benchmark either. The events are very different. If anyone needs to be ashamed its the rally organisers for allowing it to get to this stage.

[Gee Cee]

The above link didn't work for me. But I managed to Google the report.

What an absolute shambles. Clearly the people who are supposedly running this rally could not organise a party in a brewery.

Why on earth should we hand over public roads to this bunch of clowns?

This rally should never be allowed to run again.

 

[TheTeapot]

Your credibility on matters of road closures has been completely destroyed, so even if you have a valid point no one is going to listen.

[Max Power]

The TT has a whole motorsport department who are actively trying to make it happen, the rally is largely left to its own devices and depends on volunteers to deliver it. 

[dilligaf]

39 minutes ago, Gee Cee said:

The above link didn't work for me. But I managed to Google the report.

What an absolute shambles. Clearly the people who are supposedly running this rally could not organise a party in a brewery.

Why on earth should we hand over public roads to this bunch of clowns?

This rally should never be allowed to run again.

 

I said two weeks ago that you had lost my support (as your only fan) but now you have gained another adversary. 

[dilligaf]

2 minutes ago, Max Power said:

The TT has a whole motorsport department who are actively trying to make it happen, the rally is largely left to its own devices and depends on volunteers to deliver it. 

and spin the danger element. Yet the rally comes under the spotlight for fuck all ?

You know the extent of the risk involved with the bike "racing" and you know it is far and away higher than that of the rally. 

 I am ashamed that I pay tax to support some of these idiots who have the say in what sport we watch.

[finlo]

17 minutes ago, dilligaf said:

and spin the danger element. Yet the rally comes under the spotlight for fuck all ?

You know the extent of the risk involved with the bike "racing" and you know it is far and away higher than that of the rally. 

 I am ashamed that I pay tax to support some of these idiots who have the say in what sport we watch.

I'm ashamed that they take tax off us at all for what we receive back for it!

[Linz]

9 hours ago, piebaps said:

This FOI was published today and the attachments show a history of persistent problems and apparently nobody from the rally side addressing them.

https://iom.icasework.com/servlet/ep.getImg?ref=183401&bin=Y&auth=0&db=ZVD1ZPdIGvo%3D&access_token=ky1mwltH2UgDlRDjrVrs3L7RURboN6Gb4FNWiurN9xdZq8NaNsR3m-HFx813IQw7.x5Y0-wnTOG-_0MLmu3KZYg%3D%3D

The one that shocked me most was the incident on Marine Drive and rally control buggering off home before it was finalized.

As a few pointed out on the newspaper comments section. You wouldn’t trust the DOI not to have got someone’s mate to do that FOI request. Usually they try not to answer any of the questions presented by members of the public in FOI replies - but this one gushes damaging Information completely without restraint at every opportunity. I’d say it’s pretty obvious that the Department aren’t below using legislation it usually holds in contempt when the public use it to hold them to account with to help it leak things that make it look less moronic to the general public. 

[dilligaf]

1 hour ago, piebaps said:

Sorry dilli I don't agree.

If someone wants a road closure then the onus is on them to get their house in order. RallyIOM clearly wasn't in order and hadn't been for some years. There appears to have been plenbty of cajoling etc and nothing had changed.

Comparing it to TT isn't a useful benchmark either. The events are very different. If anyone needs to be ashamed its the rally organisers for allowing it to get to this stage.

Yes, but read the bit about not wanting to have been at an inquest. Then think about how many bikers have been dismembered and what the inquest would have been like.

Not very tasteful but brought up by the chinless wonder. ( who probably has his parents drive him to work !!!!!!, or has a pushbike )

Yeah, you know who you are.

[Derek Flint]

It’s an interesting debate; risk is risk. What counts if the unfortunate happens and you do end up in court is how competently you managed and mitigated it. What did your risk assessment look like? How did your safety plan read? Had it been tested? How competent and qualified were your officials? Did you manage to satisfy your governing body, if there is one? Did you satisfy your insurers you were an insurable risk? Have you thus got the requisite insurance cover?

If the stuff above is in place, then I think the DOI could comfortably grant a RCO. If not, they do have an obligation to protect life. That is the point where it gets really interesting, as TT often has unfortunate consequences. 

But as the warning triangles point out...Motorsport is dangerous.

[Derek Flint]

It’s an interesting debate; risk is risk. What counts if the unfortunate happens and you do end up in court is how competently you managed and mitigated it. What did your risk assessment look like? How did your safety plan read? Had it been tested? How competent and qualified were your officials? Did you manage to satisfy your governing body, if there is one? Did you satisfy your insurers you were an insurable risk? Have you thus got the requisite insurance cover?

If the stuff above is in place, then I think the DOI could comfortably grant a RCO. If not, they do have an obligation to protect life. That is the point where it gets really interesting, as TT often has unfortunate consequences. 

But as the warning triangles point out...Motorsport is dangerous.