Lack Of Road Safety Strategy...

[yootalkin2me]

The thing is, you can have all the speed limits all over the island but you need the resources to police and enforce it by having a properly equipped (vehicles, equipment and staff) RPU which we dont have, we did but then it got drastically cut due to budget reductions.

So we, as a society have to choose what are important to us and focus the resources on those things whilst getting rid of things that aren't important to us. 

Basically, are we ok with fatalities and serious injuries or are we not.

[Shake me up Judy]

You don't need lots of resources. Bang up a few lunatics, give them serious bans, impound the vehicles etc, and everyone soon gets the message

[yootalkin2me]

4 minutes ago, Shake me up Judy said:

You don't need lots of resources. Bang up a few lunatics, give them serious bans, impound the vehicles etc, and everyone soon gets the message

Yes, you could...£10k fine and lifetime bans etc but that would be the precursor to a totalitarian state and I for one would rather take my chances in life without that kind of rule.

[TheTeapot]

7 minutes ago, Shake me up Judy said:

You don't need lots of resources. Bang up a few lunatics, give them serious bans, impound the vehicles etc, and everyone soon gets the message

Deterrent sentencing doesn't really work

[manx-person]

11 minutes ago, Derek Flint said:

Absolutely. art. 2 Human Rights Act. This administration doesn’t seem to understand its responsibilities in that arena.

It's not just the administration, in my view.

A few years ago (maybe 7), at the start of TT week, just before the roads closed I was in stationary traffic, 10 yards away from a police officer. A motorbike crashed into the back of me, he was taken to hospital with leg injuries (he recovered quite well I understand) and fortunately he was discharged a number of days later- his bike was a "write-off" (I think). My daughter was in the car at the time (aged about 9), and the Police were superb with the way they moved her away from the situation whilst it was dealt with and they spoke to me.

I was, quite rightly, breathalysed, which was negative, and then the officer commenced to complete a "notice of intention to prosecute" despite the fact that he had seen what had happened with his eyes. He was eventually dissuaded from doing this, and I was given a "producer notice" to produce my documents. This I did, in the requisite time.

The guy who ran into the back of me was given, by concession, longer to produce his documents. Unfortunately by the time he was required to produce the documents, he had left the Island it transpired that he wasn't insured. Had he been required to produce the documents on the same timescale as me he would have still been on the Island at the time, with an opportunity to take him before the courts, I don't think that the matter was followed up by the police.

Maybe things would be different now, I don't know - but it felt to me that I was being treated more harshly then a visitor, who (it appeared) "escaped" without penalty.

Of course it must be difficult for traffic officers to deal with matters during TT, and I have sympathy with them - but I think that the way that "special treatment" was afforded to a visiting biker/motorist represented a tacit acceptance that visitors weren't being held to the same high requirements as residents, with the consequential impact on road safety and behavior.

[Shake me up Judy]

Some years ago during T.T. I stopped to report a dangerous driver to a young roadside cop. Wish I hadn't have bothered because he wasn't interested. I got the distinct impression that he thought I was interfering or being an unnecessary nuisance. Perhaps unfairly, I also wondered if he actually enjoyed the madness and was totting up his overtime in his head. I've never bothered again. 

[flaps]

There's nothing unique about our roads. There's nothing special about here. We're not a special case. The only reason our accident record is one of the worst anywhere, is because of the speeding culture here, and the lack of enforcement. The RPU has been cut to the bone, and there are no cameras, and roads with no speed limits. If I travel at 30 in a 30, I'm the slowest vehicle on the road, with a line of traffic tailgating me.

At the end of the day, humans don't like admitting we are the problem. We don't want an all island speed limit, as we all like to have a blast, so we'll make up nonsense to justify it, like, er, "It's not speed that kills, it's bad driving".... yeah yeah whatever. Education doesn't work, as we won't admit we are the problem. Enforcement is the only thing that will make people wise up, and there's hardly any of that. When you see some Athol Street type overtaking 4 cars at once on a blind bend in his Audi - that guy is intelligent. He knows he's being a twat, but he doesn't care about anyone else. Enforcement is what's needed. 1000 RTC's a year is utterly ridiculous. I see the wall is knocked down again at church bends. Those holes in walls aren't caused by people driving slow. It's not cyclists. It's people driving like twats.

Those 1000 RTC's per year involve about 1500 cars. That's right - a huge proportion aren't 'collisions' but people just driving their own car off the road. 2 reasons for that - 1 - too fast, 2 not looking where you're going, ie on your phone. Speed, and inattention. 

People feel safe in their cars now. And if you feel safe, you'll take risks. This is why people who drive big cars are aggressive drivers. Just imagine this - instead of an airbag on your steering wheel, there was a big spike. You'd drive carefully then. You certainly wouldn't be looking at twitter.

The lack of real policy or strategy regarding road safety here is shameful. And we can't use the excuse of our motorsport events. Other places have motorsport events too, and they don't acccept loads of deaths and 100 accidents in a week, just because there's a race on.

[doc.fixit]

.....yes, that's something I've always advocated...........drivers are not allowed any safety aids, passengers of course have the lot..........oh yes, drivers have a big spike in the centre of the steering wheel.........

[Sentience]

I drive between Douglas and Laxey 5 days a week and areas covered by speed limitations change all the time. Especially TT week. Sometimes not going back to what they were previously.

This year, a road I'm certain for the last...century? was 40mph changed to 30. As a consequence I ended up with my first, in 45 years of driving on the Isle of Man,  penalty of a £120.00 fine.

"Did I know how fast I was going" the good Traffic officer asked, "yes" I responded, "40 miles an hour". "Well sir the speed limit is 30"

I  understand that 'ignorance of the law' offers you no protection from prosecution, but it most have been obvious to this man that I had not intentionally broken the highway code rules.

Intransigence, filling the coffers, meeting targets , who knows. But changing my  opinion about our local traffic officers.....absolutely!

[craggy_steve]

44 minutes ago, Derek Flint said:

Absolutely. art. 2 Human Rights Act. This administration doesn’t seem to understand its responsibilities in that arena.

I'd rather not go down the Art 2 route, it has been used by the courts to decide that the right to life does not include a right to die (Pretty v United Kingdom 2002) which is a huge extrapolation given the actual wording. A separate issue but one which brings the interpretation of Art 2 into serious disrepute. The less we need to resort to Art 2 the better as far as I'm concerned, neither it nor gov't can substitute for or absolve or deny personal responsibility. 

Difficult problem because we all deserve protection from idiots. Island-wide 30MPH limit?

[flaps]

I had that happen to me last year between upper and lower foxdale. I was doing 40, got pulled over. He told me it was 30 all the way through. I assumed it must have changed, so apologised profusely and grovelled. He let me off. Imagine how annoyed I was when returning that way, to see that it was 40 after all, and he was wrong.

[Derek Flint]

6 minutes ago, craggy_steve said:

I'd rather not go down the Art 2 route, it has been used by the courts to decide that the right to life does not include a right to die (Pretty v United Kingdom 2002) which is a huge extrapolation given the actual wording. A separate issue but one which brings the interpretation of Art 2 into serious disrepute. The less we need to resort to Art 2 the better as far as I'm concerned, neither it nor gov't can substitute for or absolve or deny personal responsibility. 

Difficult problem because we all deserve protection from idiots. Island-wide 30MPH limit?

In every critical operation or decision I made in policing, Art.2 was right up there. It’s the fundamental right, and god help you if you end up gripping the rail at an inquiry and you hadn’t had it at the forefront of your reasoning. 

I’m not anti-fun, and 30 might be too low. A 60 limit makes more sense, but those who want to do the fairground ride should be given a way of accessing on certain dates. That, and a major investment at Jurby should meet the needs of most.

i just want to see my former colleagues, and partner agencies, given a fighting chance with a strategy that can make a difference, and make us a world leader in Road Safety. 

[Uhtred]

51 minutes ago, flaps said:

There's nothing unique about our roads. There's nothing special about here. We're not a special case. The only reason our accident record is one of the worst anywhere, is because of the speeding culture here, and the lack of enforcement. The RPU has been cut to the bone, and there are no cameras, and roads with no speed limits. If I travel at 30 in a 30, I'm the slowest vehicle on the road, with a line of traffic tailgating me.

At the end of the day, humans don't like admitting we are the problem. We don't want an all island speed limit, as we all like to have a blast, so we'll make up nonsense to justify it, like, er, "It's not speed that kills, it's bad driving".... yeah yeah whatever. Education doesn't work, as we won't admit we are the problem. Enforcement is the only thing that will make people wise up, and there's hardly any of that. When you see some Athol Street type overtaking 4 cars at once on a blind bend in his Audi - that guy is intelligent. He knows he's being a twat, but he doesn't care about anyone else. Enforcement is what's needed. 1000 RTC's a year is utterly ridiculous. I see the wall is knocked down again at church bends. Those holes in walls aren't caused by people driving slow. It's not cyclists. It's people driving like twats.

Those 1000 RTC's per year involve about 1500 cars. That's right - a huge proportion aren't 'collisions' but people just driving their own car off the road. 2 reasons for that - 1 - too fast, 2 not looking where you're going, ie on your phone. Speed, and inattention. 

People feel safe in their cars now. And if you feel safe, you'll take risks. This is why people who drive big cars are aggressive drivers. Just imagine this - instead of an airbag on your steering wheel, there was a big spike. You'd drive carefully then. You certainly wouldn't be looking at twitter.

The lack of real policy or strategy regarding road safety here is shameful. And we can't use the excuse of our motorsport events. Other places have motorsport events too, and they don't acccept loads of deaths and 100 accidents in a week, just because there's a race on.

Twat driving is endemic on this Island (uh oh....Uhtred’s off on the “worst standard of driving anywhere” schtick again...) well yes, Uhtred is. And, interestingly, hot spots for the twats to reveal their colours are frequently where (perpetually misused) overtaking  opportunities arise; ascending  Richmond Hill; ascending Brown Cow Hill Santon; King Edward Road Onchan and the Mountain Road to name but a few. 

But by no means all bad driving on the Island is speed related...manouvering without looking; manouvering without indicating; parking in idiotic places...I witness all of these multiple times every week. We need to recognise as a community that we’re shit at road safety. And do something other than talk about it or publish consultation documents.

(Don’t get me started on vehicles with defective lights and the shit state of many commercial vehicles...)

[yootalkin2me]

As I've previously said before on this forum; this Government and preceding Governments need to make up their bloody mind, you can't advocate speed on our roads (closed or otherwise) along with trumpeting that it's the motorsport Mecca of the world and then start prosecuting motorists for driving fast on open roads where there are limits or not.

This kind of message breeds confusion and contradiction, especially to motorcyclists who come over here during TT and the Festival of Motorcycling to emulate their 'heroes/knobheads' (delete where applicable).

[Max Power]

Perhaps the establishment of a proper race circuit, not Jurby, could help to reduce the need for people to speed on the road through properly organised track days and events? This has the added benefit of helping people to realise what their limits and those of their vehicle are. We could then have more track focused race events to help us over the hump when road racing finally becomes impossible to run for whatever reason.