The Phantom Posted August 29, 2023 Share Posted August 29, 2023 54 minutes ago, Banker said: Packed in peel today with a number of kids & some adults in the sea, lots of bikers still about as well Special offer of Pepto Bismal and Dioralyte at Peel Shoprite tomorrow then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted August 29, 2023 Share Posted August 29, 2023 2 hours ago, woolley said: I've told him this before. The prevailing currents take everything north east, and all it really needs to be even better is a longer outfall, but Blade Runner has his own version of reality. You can't win. Longer outfalls are so 1970s. Send the shite further out to see and we'll be ok? It 's 2023 now. Sewage should be treated here just like the rest of the world. Blade runner is right on this occasion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted August 29, 2023 Share Posted August 29, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Happier diner said: Longer outfalls are so 1970s. Send the shite further out to see and we'll be ok? It 's 2023 now. Sewage should be treated here just like the rest of the world. Blade runner is right on this occasion. Oh dear. I fear I'm going to depress you if you really believe that. Blade Runner is not right. 1970s? Rest of the world? Sorry, but you have swallowed the hype, and are talking nonsense. Do you know what percentage of human sewage globally is released raw to the environment through lack of sufficient (or any) treatment infrastructure? It's 80%. This is now, today. Not 50 years ago. Worse still, the population today is more than double the 3.5 billion back then, and so is the amount of sewage being dumped. The size of the problem is far worse now. Much infrastructure around the world that does exist is life expired and creaking at the seams as it tries to cope with population growth and unusual weather patterns. The Isle of Man is in the vanguard of processing sewage onshore, and can hold its head high. All of our "major" (I use the term loosely in their relative size) population centres are connected to IRIS and Ramsey has its own arrangements. Peel doesn't yet, but this can be fairly easily remedied, leaving only Laxey/Lonan. By contrast, incidentally, Guernsey renewed it's outfalls 10 years ago for continued discharge to the sea for its entire population. I agree that where there are workable options then onshore processing is optimum, as has been done in our Island. Unfortunately, the topography of the Laxey valley does not lend itself to it at all. There is not a single solution that is better than discharge to the sea, and for such a minuscule population too. Whatever alternative is progressed will mean high costs of construction, will probably blight the valley for ever on still days with the stench of sewage, and will cost a fortune in energy for perpetual pumping. Can it be guaranteed that these alternatives are, on balance, even environmentally sound, given the carbon emissions that will be involved versus a very small amount of waste water discharge? It's a prime example of hyping up one size fits all solutions before considering the problem at a specific location, or even whether there is a problem there to be solved in the first place. Meanwhile, the water quality in Laxey Bay remains excellent as ever for 95%+ of the time. The World: https://octogroup.org/news/more-80-worlds-sewage-discharged-environment-untreated/ The Med: https://www.thenewfederalist.eu/the-mediterranean-is-drowning-in-plastic-waste?lang=fr The UK: https://www.newstatesman.com/environment/2022/09/raw-sewage-pollution-discharge-sea-beaches Cornwall: https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1668039/Health-warning-sewage-sea-Cornwall-beaches Canaries: https://www.canarianweekly.com/posts/Huge-amounts-of-sewage-continue-to-be-dumped-directly-into-the-sea Guernsey: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-guernsey-24019396 Edited August 29, 2023 by woolley 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 9 hours ago, woolley said: Oh dear. I fear I'm going to depress you if you really believe that. Blade Runner is not right. 1970s? Rest of the world? Sorry, but you have swallowed the hype, and are talking nonsense. Do you know what percentage of human sewage globally is released raw to the environment through lack of sufficient (or any) treatment infrastructure? It's 80%. This is now, today. Not 50 years ago. Worse still, the population today is more than double the 3.5 billion back then, and so is the amount of sewage being dumped. The size of the problem is far worse now. Much infrastructure around the world that does exist is life expired and creaking at the seams as it tries to cope with population growth and unusual weather patterns. The Isle of Man is in the vanguard of processing sewage onshore, and can hold its head high. All of our "major" (I use the term loosely in their relative size) population centres are connected to IRIS and Ramsey has its own arrangements. Peel doesn't yet, but this can be fairly easily remedied, leaving only Laxey/Lonan. By contrast, incidentally, Guernsey renewed it's outfalls 10 years ago for continued discharge to the sea for its entire population. I agree that where there are workable options then onshore processing is optimum, as has been done in our Island. Unfortunately, the topography of the Laxey valley does not lend itself to it at all. There is not a single solution that is better than discharge to the sea, and for such a minuscule population too. Whatever alternative is progressed will mean high costs of construction, will probably blight the valley for ever on still days with the stench of sewage, and will cost a fortune in energy for perpetual pumping. Can it be guaranteed that these alternatives are, on balance, even environmentally sound, given the carbon emissions that will be involved versus a very small amount of waste water discharge? It's a prime example of hyping up one size fits all solutions before considering the problem at a specific location, or even whether there is a problem there to be solved in the first place. Meanwhile, the water quality in Laxey Bay remains excellent as ever for 95%+ of the time. The World: https://octogroup.org/news/more-80-worlds-sewage-discharged-environment-untreated/ The Med: https://www.thenewfederalist.eu/the-mediterranean-is-drowning-in-plastic-waste?lang=fr The UK: https://www.newstatesman.com/environment/2022/09/raw-sewage-pollution-discharge-sea-beaches Cornwall: https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1668039/Health-warning-sewage-sea-Cornwall-beaches Canaries: https://www.canarianweekly.com/posts/Huge-amounts-of-sewage-continue-to-be-dumped-directly-into-the-sea Guernsey: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-guernsey-24019396 There are some good points in here. I wasnt aware of Guernseys strange approach. Don't run away with the idea that sea outfalls are cheap though https://guernseypress.com/news/2013/08/17/sewage-outfall-costs-quadruple-to-15m/ The sea will naturally treat sewage but putting unscreened sewage into the sea is not acceptable. I believe Guernsey screen all their sewage. Do we have screens at Laxey and Garwick? I am not sure TBH but I don't remember seeing any. I would imagine the cost of 2 long sea outfalls wouldn't cost much different to just treating it I remember back in the 80's a long sea outfall was built at Scarborough. It was going to solve everything. Cost millions. It didn't work and they had to put treatment in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 Upgrade to harbour starting this week https://gef.im/news/politics/6-6m-harbour-works-to-get-underway-39459/?fbclid=IwAR3CjV2qtBSyORLhZp5YQ_VTvBY29lO7wPbaOrxuF5-7aBw2q7DqJ8xtdDs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Happier diner said: There are some good points in here. I wasnt aware of Guernseys strange approach. Don't run away with the idea that sea outfalls are cheap though https://guernseypress.com/news/2013/08/17/sewage-outfall-costs-quadruple-to-15m/ The sea will naturally treat sewage but putting unscreened sewage into the sea is not acceptable. I believe Guernsey screen all their sewage. Do we have screens at Laxey and Garwick? I am not sure TBH but I don't remember seeing any. I would imagine the cost of 2 long sea outfalls wouldn't cost much different to just treating it I remember back in the 80's a long sea outfall was built at Scarborough. It was going to solve everything. Cost millions. It didn't work and they had to put treatment in. Of course, and don't get me wrong, I am not cheerleading for discharge to the sea as a general remedy. I am totally in favour of onshore processing in the vast majority of cases where it is practical in scale and feasible in implementation. The larger the scale, the more feasible, through both the necessity of cleaning the environment and the ability to spread the cost among a substantial population. I advocate a pragmatic approach over the dogmatic one normally taken over this issue. In my long post I was merely saying that in a world where 80% of the world's sewage for almost 8 billion people is discharged untreated to the seas, it is quite ludicrous that an Island of 85,000, which (after Peel is attended to) has onshore processing for all but a couple of thousand residents, should be performing all kinds of inefficient, costly, and environmentally dubious contortions in Laxey valley just to tick a box and solve a problem that doesn't exist. I believe screening was proposed at Laxey in one of the MUA schemes, but there is a local group hellbent on having everything pumped to Meary Veg which is crazy and never going to happen. The Fylde: https://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/news/environment/swimmers-fight-back-against-sea-pollution-and-say-there-is-too-much-conflicting-advice-about-blackpool-and-cleveleys-beaches-4231873 Edited August 30, 2023 by woolley 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 6 minutes ago, Banker said: Upgrade to harbour starting this week https://gef.im/news/politics/6-6m-harbour-works-to-get-underway-39459/?fbclid=IwAR3CjV2qtBSyORLhZp5YQ_VTvBY29lO7wPbaOrxuF5-7aBw2q7DqJ8xtdDs This is what Blade Runner's tug boats are all about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiskey Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 (edited) Why didn’t they run it by us all first? Edited August 30, 2023 by Whiskey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b4mbi Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 1 hour ago, Banker said: Upgrade to harbour starting this week https://gef.im/news/politics/6-6m-harbour-works-to-get-underway-39459/?fbclid=IwAR3CjV2qtBSyORLhZp5YQ_VTvBY29lO7wPbaOrxuF5-7aBw2q7DqJ8xtdDs That's good. Just in time for the arrival of Manxman.... You know, the new vessel that was ordered in July2021.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuffolkNGoode Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 1 hour ago, Banker said: Upgrade to harbour starting this week https://gef.im/news/politics/6-6m-harbour-works-to-get-underway-39459/?fbclid=IwAR3CjV2qtBSyORLhZp5YQ_VTvBY29lO7wPbaOrxuF5-7aBw2q7DqJ8xtdDs "While piling is often undertaken in projects of this type, drilling will instead enable the installation of the bollards and large diameter piles, with noise being kept to a minimum." Sigh - excuse my pessimism, but I think it will more than likely be realism, but, this sentence seems the plant for future explanation for the usual massive overspend. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Whiskey said: Why didn’t they run it by us all first? they ignore us anyway so why waste the time bothering. Edited August 30, 2023 by WTF 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 1 hour ago, SuffolkNGoode said: "While piling is often undertaken in projects of this type, drilling will instead enable the installation of the bollards and large diameter piles, with noise being kept to a minimum." Sigh - excuse my pessimism, but I think it will more than likely be realism, but, this sentence seems the plant for future explanation for the usual massive overspend. Quote The project is included in this year’s Budget capital programme with £6.61m allocated. So I'll be the first to estimate the final tally at £20 million. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 3 hours ago, woolley said: This is what Blade Runner's tug boats are all about. Perhaps they should have discussed with him first to stop him making up stories!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarndyce Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 1 hour ago, SuffolkNGoode said: large diameter piles I suspect large diameter piles will end up being a pain in the arse! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlebushy Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 58 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said: So I'll be the first to estimate the final tally at £20 million. Amateur! It will be 50 million. Won't somebody think of the voids...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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