Amadeus Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 Press announcement outside: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 so future depositors (or shareholders) pay for past mistakes by defaulting banks - seems a great time to get out of any Manx based bank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilf_uk Posted October 9, 2008 Author Share Posted October 9, 2008 Basically yes - but where do you go put your funds? The UK? Ireland? China? Russia? Every country is in the same boat - it's going to be a tough few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 All very worrying this. The first time I have had a decent amount of cash in the bank and there is the constant worry that it will be gone. Hopefully the credit crunch will drive down the value of Aston Martins to an affordable level before HSBC goes tits up and I will 'invest' in one of those instead Either that or Twix bars HSBS are holding up reasonably well - you'd have made about 20% on an investment in them starting in Jan 2000 - and you would never have been underwater on the investment. Its interesting seeing how barclays has lost it - at one point up over 80% and now down by 30%. While RBS - 80% loss in value! Lloyds TSB is also having a tough time - down 50% Clicky - you'll have to change the time axis to get the results above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ai_Droid Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 so future depositors (or shareholders) pay for past mistakes by defaulting banks - seems a great time to get out of any Manx based bank. That's why its capped I guess. I understand they've only just paid off the last fund which opened back in the 90's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutley Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 I wonder if there will be any investigation into KS&F? Only 2 days ago they made a statement saying all was well when they obviously knew it wasn't. Surely the Directors would be accountable for deceiving customers? Is there a John Wright in the house? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 I'd be willing to bet that they pool cash centrally and it was all sent to Iceland at the end of each day. When the Icelandic government pulled the plug the money just didn't come back. Its very hard for the IOM Directors - as long as the parent didn't default they were probably a profitable subsidiary, but due to events beyond their control suddenly they are insolvent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman8180 Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 Not sure who that doddery dude is that is speaking now....but I don't like what he is saying! I think that the old doddery dude was David Cannan, speaking in his capacity as Chair of the Water Board. I didn't listen to it all, but I think it went along the lines of: ".....Oh fuck, the Water Authority have a shit load a cash invested with S&F, from which it was to pay back the £75 million bond to Treasury for the various Capital works embarked on lately.........blah....blah...but S&F were approved by the Treasury, so it's not really our fault / problem....." As I say, I am paraphrasing, but that was the general drift. Actually, looking at the UK news, there are a load of public authorites, NHS trusts etc who seem to have money invested in this little Icelandic Gem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbones Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 Bespoke recruitment have left a load of leaflets inside the front door of the building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 KSF is but one domino, in a complex pattern of dominoes. Methinks Tynwald will be meeting again Monday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah 01 Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 'Surely the Directors would be accountable for deceiving customers?' - how could you possibly think such a thing. Wash your mouth out! Remember how a certain 'Island's Airline' was taking bookings unitl the very last moment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryMcCann Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 'Surely the Directors would be accountable for deceiving customers?' - how could you possibly think such a thing. Wash your mouth out! Remember how a certain 'Island's Airline' was taking bookings unitl the very last moment? Blimey. You don't reckon KSF are going to fly the building to Iceland at the crack of dawn tomorrow do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilf_uk Posted October 9, 2008 Author Share Posted October 9, 2008 I wonder if there will be any investigation into KS&F? Only 2 days ago they made a statement saying all was well when they obviously knew it wasn't. Surely the Directors would be accountable for deceiving customers? Is there a John Wright in the house? The whole thing started to fall to pieces on Tuesday when the Icelandic government told Alistair Darling that they had no intention of meeting their UK obligations under the depositors protection scheme, which then led to the UK Govt taking control of Landsbanki and Kaupthing subsidiaries in the UK, which in turn led to a technical default yesterday of the main Kaupthing bank in Iceland which has led to the position of KS&F over here. The issue with Kaupthing, which was caused by the actions of the UK Government only really emerged yesterday morning and the Directors of KS&F IOM held a meeting yesterday afternoon and it was decided to wind it up, as technically (and in reality) it's liabilities vastly outnumber it assets and the directors cannot continue the business. If anything the Directors have had the rug pulled from underneath them, rather like the UK directors of Lehman suddenly having no money to continue operations. The other major thing here is that KS&F IOM is an investor in Kaupthing Edge (KE) in the UK, who's retail savings book (balances held in the names of individuals) was transferred to ING. However, the KS&F IOM balances and other non retail balances (balances held in the names of corporates, partnerships etc) held in KE are not covered by the scheme, not transferred to ING and KS&F basically becomes an unsecured creditor for all it's balances in KE. The problem with those types of banks over here is that they are really just vehicles to raise cash for other parts of the business in other parts of the world. The cash is then 'invested' with other parts of the business with a small reserve slushing about over here. So when other parts of the business fail, you can expect the whole lot to go down. The only exception to this is Kaupthing in Sweden where the regulator ensured that when Kaupthing took over the company the funds were ringfenced and were not allowed to be taken out of the country/ transferred. That company has gone into liquidation as well but has said it has more liquid funds than liabilities/ deposits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amadeus Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 Some of the comments on iomonline aren't that good - life savings et al http://www.iomtoday.co.im/your-shout/Finan...-IoM.4544715.jp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b4mbi Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 KSF is but one domino, in a complex pattern of dominoes. Methinks Tynwald will be meeting again Monday. Think I agree Albert. Not wanting to doommonger, but I have just come from the meeting of depositors of KSF (IoM) According to the MD, the IOM subsidiary has liabilities of c. £850m....(i.e. customer deposits) there are apparently 3 interested parties in taking the deposits which realistically is the only chance of people recovering money in full...(i.e. as ING did for the UK depositors) It was confirmed that the new depositors compensation scheme enacted today WILL apply to this case. i.e. £50k per individual. What was not confirmed was how many individual investors there were nor how many corporate depositors there were. but what is the real concern is WHO WILL PAY for the depositors compensation scheme ?? say the bank has 2,000 customers with £50k or more and 1,000 customer with an average of £25k that makes £100,000,000 + £25,000,000 = £125m and the other 38 (iirc from Juan Watterson speech in Tynwald today) banks on the Island are expected to pay for this?? £3.2m each? and that's still with £725m of depositors money up the wall assuming that none of the KSF (IoM) banks assets can be recovered. if buyers are not found, IMHO this could signal the end of the Isle of Man as a finance centre, as confidence would evaporate.... very worrying times..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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