Has The Island Become A Dangerous Place To Live

[Lonan3]

I have worked in a taxi through most weekends over the last 13 or 14 years. I have rarely seen any serious incidents and I have never once felt threatened by the - often drunk - people I pick up.

I've generally found that most people prefer to be amenable - and that most of the recent arrivals have adapted to the way, and the pace, of life here.

The vast majority of youngsters are - as most of us were in our youths - full of boisterous energy and are often too loud and energetic for the comfort of their elders. They are, for the most part however, not only harmless but are well-behaved and well mannered when treated in a reasonable way.

Crime figures are used to aggrandise the police force - to remind us that they are some kind of 'thin blue line' between ourselves and chaos. It is a fallacy. The streets of our towns are comparatively safe and always have been. As far as I know, there are no serial murderers or rapists stalking our streets, very few cars ever get stolen, missing persons are usually found safe and well and, apart from a few acts of pathetic vandalism, crime is not particularly observable.

I am old enough to remember what the place was like in the 60s,70s,80s etc - and I don't think attitudes have changed a great deal. The only difference appears to be that the 'stand up' fist fights of my youth have turned into the kind of cat fights that were once reserved for females.

[Kopek]

Dangerous over here? Only for drug dealers, 80% detection rate, better to stick to house break ins, only 40% detection rate!!!

[queenie]

I live near Central Prom and I'm quite happy as a 40ish year old woman to walk home alone after a night out (though rare these days!) I think the reports of violence seem to mainly involve young guys who are only interested in fighting between themselves. I frequently walk past teenagers on the promenade, who I don't find in the least threatening and are far more interested in either each other or their phones ect. than me! People need to get a grip and stop believing all they read in the Daily Mail etc.

[John Wright]

The crime rate in the Chief Constables report for 2009 is now below the levels in the 1981 Chief Constables report.

 

I did my Masters degree thesis in 1979 on Manx crime rates and found an unusual growth pattern. First given the small size of the Island year on year changes in the statistics are not statistically significant. A change in policing, or the introduction of new methodologies and reporting, or new legislation or four crimes in one category where the previous year there were only two, can have a significant effect in statistical terms and percentages.

 

So it is long term trends that are important.

 

In the IOM they tend to be low, level and then, once every decade, an almost overnight jump, 50% or more increase, over a two year period, followed by a slow gentle tail back drop down to the original level.

 

It would be interesting to try and identify what caused the huge rise in each case, but over 60 years the pattern has been repeated 5 times

 

So a number of questions

 

If crimes are at 1981 levels why do we need so many more police officers and civilian staff now than then

 

If crimes are at 1981 levels why do we send so many more people to prison. In the Chief Gaolers reports in the 1950's to 1970's there are frequent reports of the prison in Victoria Road being empty for days on end.

 

Assuming that some people caught and cahrged are caught and cahrged under recent legislation, especially about financial crime and public order, ASBO's etc which would not have been criminal at all in the past, if we screen the new offences out has there been a fall in the underlying "traditional crimes" crime rate

 

How much of the crime rate is caused by us being less tolerant. Example. During my student days it was not illegal to call a police officer a "pig" during an arrest or a drunken discussion outside licensed premises or at a demonstration. It is now a serious public order offence as apparently it upsets the officers. Now whilst making it clear I do not condone such usage are modern day police officers so much more sensitive souls

 

why do we now perceive the IOM as being less safe and what role have the police, politicians and press had in craeting that perception, and why?

Of course in posing all these points I am acutely aware that there is a need for additional officers due to better safeguarding of the rights of suspects and custody codes and technology advances

[P.K.]

In the IOM they tend to be low, level and then, once every decade, an almost overnight jump, 50% or more increase, over a two year period, followed by a slow gentle tail back drop down to the original level.

 

It would be interesting to try and identify what caused the huge rise in each case, but over 60 years the pattern has been repeated 5 times

 

Time to deploy the old tinfoil headgear methinks. It's clearly down to sunspot activity...

 

How much of the crime rate is caused by us being less tolerant. Example. During my student days it was not illegal to call a police officer a "pig" during an arrest or a drunken discussion outside licensed premises or at a demonstration. It is now a serious public order offence as apparently it upsets the officers. Now whilst making it clear I do not condone such usage are modern day police officers so much more sensitive souls

 

why do we now perceive the IOM as being less safe and what role have the police, politicians and press had in craeting that perception, and why?

 

The rise in street drugs are probably a major factor. Also a more affluent society driven in many cases by greed is bound to create more "temptation" shall we say.

 

The cops hanging around outside nightclubs is bloody stupid imho. They exacerbate the situation by their presence and in many cases are the cause of flare-ups. I'm not sure if it still happens but it used to be that Naval Officers were forbidden to greet drunken matelots returning from a night out on the sherbet as swinging punches would be the inevitable result. It it happened the plank was still in trouble but it was the Orifices fault. Very sensible.

[BigDave]

At 40% of the population here I'm a minority here you English knobend.

At the last census, Manx born people were 47.6% of the population. The next largest group is English born people at 37.2% of the population.

 

Who is the majority group? Answers on a postcard. A Manx postcard only. Preferably with a picture of an inbred vertibrate with a debilitating spinal condition.

[ballaughbiker]

Always a bit wary of police statistics and as usual, it's your perception of the problem that you voice which may differ significantly from reality. I'm definitely not a Daily Mail reader or a shrinking violet but my perception is that there is more of a threat than, say, 30 years ago. To try and draw a parallel with any UK city (where teenagers might be carrying guns and knives with intention) is clearly ludicrous but that does not mean there is "no problem" on the island.

 

I think LDV is correct in saying that it's mainly a sign of the times due to changed circumstances that's different to previous decades. It's a generalisation of course but there is very little respect evident from young people and their added affluence and drugs availability does nothing to help. My perception is that Douglas late at night is more threatening to 20-30 years ago but how threatening is very debatable. I doubt the single staggering drunk who want to deck you is much of a threat. They'd probably miss by a mile. I would not say the same of a group of say 5 or 6 teenagers who were on a substance-fuelled mission to prove how hard they think they are. If they're in a certain mood, I would feel much more threatened than the 18 stone staggering pisshead. My perception is that groups of teenagers 'with attitude' are more common now but the island is still a very safe place to live.

 

Edited to say - fully agree with the point about police hanging around looking menacing. That's bound to provoke a reaction and I've never liked them having a look around the inside of a pub supposedly looking for underage drinkers.

[sausage]

The 'drug' that has to bear responsibility for a large majority of assaults, unsociable behaviour etc is sold for three quid a pint in numerous establishments every day.

 

The number of 'incidents' I have heard about in the smoking area at Colours at two or three in the morning is ridiculous.

 

These idiots are not punching or glassing each other because they have had a bit of plant food or something similar. Its the fact that they have been drinking for 8 or 10 hours and are not mature enough to handle their ale that makes things turn nasty.

[mannin1]

The 'drug' that has to bear responsibility for a large majority of assaults, unsociable behaviour etc is sold for three quid a pint in numerous establishments every day.

 

The number of 'incidents' I have heard about in the smoking area at Colours at two or three in the morning is ridiculous.

 

These idiots are not punching or glassing each other because they have had a bit of plant food or something similar. Its the fact that they have been drinking for 8 or 10 hours and are not mature enough to handle their ale that makes things turn nasty.

 

 

So who is in the wrong then Sausage, the idiots drinking it, or the Establishment for selling it?

Licensed Premises supposedly have a duty of care, to not serve people who have had too much to drink,and yet the majority of drunken violence seems repeatedly to occur regulary in the same 2or 3 Establishments.

A matter for the licensing authority perhaps.

[Cambon]

If crimes are at 1981 levels why do we send so many more people to prison. In the Chief Gaolers reports in the 1950's to 1970's there are frequent reports of the prison in Victoria Road being empty for days on end.

 

Death penalty and birching. On top of that too many people are put in prison for offences that they should not be jailed for. Add to that drug dealers, drink drivers, and the miriad of other offences that, as you mention, were not offences 30-40 years ago.

 

This is a very safe place to live compared to most.

[John Wright]

As the research for my thesis was on birching and its effect on IOM Crime rates I can say that there was no discernible effect, one way or the other, and its is so long sibce we had a hanging that is hardly likely to have had an effect either.

[Max Power]

The island was much worse in the 70's in my opinion. We lived in the centre of Douglas as I was growing up and I witnessed and was involved in all sorts of violence (I wasn't the cause btw).

I remember my dad rescuing an elderly gent being kicked senseless outside our house by a well known local prick and his mate. There tended to be brawls all over the place and you had to watch where you were going if you didn't feel in the mood for some kind of confrontation or other! There were always gangs of idiots from Pulrose or Willaston who just liked to try and pick fights with 2 or 3 innocent souls. I can remember near riots on the promenade and serious attacks in Strand Street but never read anything about them in the papers!

[Millman]

The 'drug' that has to bear responsibility for a large majority of assaults, unsociable behaviour etc is sold for three quid a pint in numerous establishments every day.

 

The number of 'incidents' I have heard about in the smoking area at Colours at two or three in the morning is ridiculous.

 

These idiots are not punching or glassing each other because they have had a bit of plant food or something similar. Its the fact that they have been drinking for 8 or 10 hours and are not mature enough to handle their ale that makes things turn nasty.

 

 

So who is in the wrong then Sausage, the idiots drinking it, or the Establishment for selling it?

Licensed Premises supposedly have a duty of care, to not serve people who have had too much to drink,and yet the majority of drunken violence seems repeatedly to occur regulary in the same 2or 3 Establishments.

A matter for the licensing authority perhaps.

To blame pubs and clubs for this may not tell the whole story and maybe very unfair. I have been told that many young people today do the majority of their drinking at home before going out, due amongst other reasons to the ridiculous cost of alcohol in licensed premises on the island matched with the stupidly low cost of alcohol in the supermarkets. This unsupervised drinking is then followed by a last few hours in a pub \ club. The pub \ club is then desperate for business so maybe there are financial pressures to serve those that in years gone by would have been kicked out (that is a guess).

 

Placing the blame on the pub \ club is he easy target. Why not the supermarkets and the brewery for creating such a situation. Or for that matter the celebrity drinking culture that glamorises every excess of each so-called celebrity \ footballer. These excesses are not just beer but drugs and violence too. Our youth is swayed by reports of these nonlebrities and their ability to get away with what they like, some role models eh.

 

The vast majority of violence at the weekends must be drink\ drug related (mostly drink), an this is due to a number of factors as above. Plus another factor is poor policing both by pubs \ clubs and by police. I must admit Douglas must be a nightmare to police given the spaced out nature of the pubs \ clubs. So blame stupid town planning too. Why wasn't the quays made strictly for entertainment? It would have made foot patrols possible and picking up on an earlier point if done in the right way this police presence need not cause trouble (it doesn't in Liverpool).

 

Sorry for the ramble but crime and violence fueled by drink is a difficult subject to apportion blame in just one area. In the island's case mistakes are being made across the board.

[Cambon]

As the research for my thesis was on birching and its effect on IOM Crime rates I can say that there was no discernible effect, one way or the other, and its is so long sibce we had a hanging that is hardly likely to have had an effect either.

 

I was refering to the empty prisons. Hanging and birching were alternatives. I mean 6 of the best of 3 months in the Jurby Hilton Resort at the tax payer's expense?

[jimbms]

As the research for my thesis was on birching and its effect on IOM Crime rates I can say that there was no discernible effect, one way or the other, and its is so long sibce we had a hanging that is hardly likely to have had an effect either.

 

I was refering to the empty prisons. Hanging and birching were alternatives. I mean 6 of the best of 3 months in the Jurby Hilton Resort at the tax payer's expense?

I would say hanging had a major effect on the incidence of reoffending in the case of murder.