quilp Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 Reaffirming confirmation bias. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrighty Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 2 hours ago, quilp said: Reaffirming confirmation bias. What does that mean, and who’s it directed at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeteroErectus Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 12 hours ago, Max Power said: We live in dangerous times indeed, I'll wager that those who read that Archduke Ferdinand had been assassinated in 1914, never thought about what it would lead to! You'd imagine those that read the balfour declaration in 1917 would have a similar perspective 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 Taking full advantage of the current chaos: ‘The most successful land-grab strategy since 1967’ as settlers push Bedouins off West Bank territory Herders report violence driving them from their homes in accelerating, aggressive and highly effective campaign https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/21/the-most-successful-land-grab-strategy-since-1967-as-settlers-push-bedouins-off-west-bank-territory Now there is a lot of open territory in "Palestine" so sometimes it's difficult to draw a legal stance on settlements. However The Gaza Strip and the West Bank are recognised as part of a de jure sovereign state of Palestine albeit one that's completely under the control of Israel. Now Israel has demolished illegal settlements in the past and I would expect them to do the same here. Yes, there are zealots on both sides.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 This is what you need to be watching Helix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 I'm well aware that Sam Harris is an islamophobe who'd like us to genocide all Muslims without having to listen to him explain that at length for 2 hours. He also pretends to be in favour of free speech but then cheers when France bans pro-Palestine protests. Because he's a hypocritical grifting pseudointellectual. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 13 minutes ago, HeliX said: ... Sam Harris is an islamophobe who'd like us to genocide all Muslims ... Have you a verbatim quote from SH to substantiate this claim? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, quilp said: Have you a verbatim quote from SH to substantiate this claim? No. He usually pretends to only apply this "solution" to "Jihadis", but his definition of Jihadis seems to intentionally include potentially anyone of Muslim faith. I used to enjoy the likes of Dave Rubin and Sam Harris until they turned into complete dicks. Here's some of my highlights, though: “The people who speak most sensibly about the threat that Islam poses to Europe are actually fascists.” “You have a lot of people on the left who are prepared to let white women get raped by Muslim immigrants. There are people who are prepared to be raped themselves.” "Take the personalities of the people on the right out of the equation. Is it crazy to express, as Ted Cruz did, a preference for Christians over Muslims in this process? Of course not. What percentage of Christians will be jihadists or want to live under Sharia law? Zero. And this is a massive, in fact the only, concern when talking about security. We know that some percentage of Muslims will be jihadists inevitably. [....] So it is not mere bigotry or mere xenophobia to express that preference. I hope you understand that I am expressing no sympathy at all with Ted Cruz’s politics or with Ted Cruz. But it is totally unhelpful to treat him — though he actually is a religious maniac — like a bigot on this point. This is a quite reasonable concern to voice. " Also there was that time he told Josh Zepp that black people were stupider than white people because of genetic evolution. Edited October 21, 2023 by HeliX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 24 minutes ago, HeliX said: I'm well aware that Sam Harris is an islamophobe who'd like us to genocide all Muslims without having to listen to him explain that at length for 2 hours. He also pretends to be in favour of free speech but then cheers when France bans pro-Palestine protests. Because he's a hypocritical grifting pseudointellectual. France is a secular state which has banned overly religious dress in schools. Good for them. Because if multi-culturalism doesn't start with the young it has no chance. Banning protests steeped in religious hatred makes sense to any normal person... In the UK the Black and White Minstrel Show set with their institutionalised racism are dying out. To be replaced by generations who think racism is a joke thank goodness.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 4 minutes ago, P.K. said: France is a secular state which has banned overly religious dress in schools. Good for them. Because if multi-culturalism doesn't start with the young it has no chance. Banning protests steeped in religious hatred makes sense to any normal person... In the UK the Black and White Minstrel Show set with their institutionalised racism are dying out. To be replaced by generations who think racism is a joke thank goodness.... Palestine isn't a religion. Being anti-Israeli Govt has nothing to do with religion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 2 minutes ago, HeliX said: Palestine isn't a religion. Being anti-Israeli Govt has nothing to do with religion. I'm calling seriously BS on that one. Here is a question for you. When the fledging state of Israel was formed it was immediately attacked by the five surrounding arab states plus a contingent from Saudi Arabia. Now was this attempt to annihilate Israel and drive the Jews into the sea (the stated aim of Iran) motivated by making sure the Palestinians got a fair shake or was it simply hatred of Jews? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 The game of what-if is so easy to play and sadly pretty irrelevant to today's situation. What if there hadn't been a Balfour declaration, what if a single state had been declared in 1948, what if Arab armies hadn't invaded Israel and annexed Palestine in 1948, what if Palestinians hadn't fled during the 1948 war, what if the bus-bombings hadn't wrecked post Oslo confidence building etc etc etc. We can play this game for ever and it doesn't really change the current reality one jot. I've been thinking a lot about Singapore - an ethnic enclave expelled from Malaysia after a nationalist war against terrorists mainly drawn from that ethnic group subject to uprising and riots in the period before independence. It has basically the same population density as the Strip, but overall over twice the total population. Lee Kuan Yew was one awesome politician - for all his authoritarian streak. Singaporeans earnt the equivalent of $400 a year (adjusted for inflation) in 1960, they now earn over $80,000 But then again maybe the ethnic Chinese culture doesn't read well as a comparison for the Arabs. Having a political philosophy based on no-surrender, no-compromise, Martyrs will be venerated and rewarded in heaven is a disaster. The Chinese approach is cherish your children, educate yourself, work hard to build something new. Which has close cultural parallels with the Jews as Amy Chua noticed: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Triple-Package-Really-Determines-Success/dp/1408852292/ Why didn't Singapore become an open air prison and why was it able to prosper? Do the politics of Singapore have any influence on this? What lessons can be read from this to Palestinian politics? 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 12 minutes ago, P.K. said: I'm calling seriously BS on that one. Here is a question for you. When the fledging state of Israel was formed it was immediately attacked by the five surrounding arab states plus a contingent from Saudi Arabia. Now was this attempt to annihilate Israel and drive the Jews into the sea (the stated aim of Iran) motivated by making sure the Palestinians got a fair shake or was it simply hatred of Jews? What's that got to do with protests in France against war crimes? But to answer, there were Jewish people living peacefully among the population in Palestine prior to the creation of Israel, with no attempts made to drive any of them into the sea. You tell me what changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 Helix yet again falls into the I'm going to accuse people who disagree with me of being fascists so I don't have to listen to them trap. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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