asitis Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 1 hour ago, WTF said: ah, the magic word, VAT. some creative accounting saw us getting far more VAT back than we were actually entitle to ( not just film shit ) and the rug got pulled with the help of big mouths boasting about it. without the VAT angle there would have been no film industry to start with over here. It was all so clear and above board that even if one of the participants went for a pee it was commercially confidential ! Well Eddie it aint commercially confidential that 26million of other peoples money has gone down the tubes irrespective of anything else ! I would like to see an enquiry which takes into account the whole affair from start to finish and what long term implications it has had for the island ! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 5 hours ago, woolley said: It is astounding that this keeps cropping up. Does anyone really believe that the film industry did not facilitate a lot of money coming to the Island over many years? You have to look at all sides of the equation. Cinemanx, Pinewood, share dealings, film expenses, film sales and VAT. If we had never set up Isle of Man Film we would be even further in the mire than we are now, that is for sure. The problem is Woolley, we are not allowed to know the full picture (pun intended). I am very, very sceptical about the numbers of bed nights (over-stated), the number and value of grants handed out for studio construction and support services etc (never revealed). And keep in mind that every production had their costs met either via funding directly from the Media Fund or the taxpayer (as IOM Films) as a partner with other"investors". The production costs are ALWAYS paid, irrespective of the sales. As far as I can see we took a hit on both. As for the VAT effect, well we’ll see next April how much of a difference the VAT has made to the pot. I think it may not be as much as some think. A few years back Anne Craine publicly announced, during her tenure as Treasury Minister, that we had lost and continued to lose money. I believed her as she had nowt to lose. The UK pours billions into the entertainment industry with all sorts of grants and tax credits etc. But of course, they can print their own money to support it. We can’t. Ergo we could never afford to do it from the outset. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2112 Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 With regards to Shimmins rather pathetic remarks, which in all honesty are ill thought and ill judged. If he had real intelligence, commercial nous and was a financial guru a la Eddie Teare, I’m sure he would still be working in the financial sector. Unfortunately like most of the other clowns, his remarks show, how he doesn’t really live in the real world. They know the value of everything! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Down Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 4 hours ago, La Colombe said: Well I'm currently resident on the island and I don't feel insulted. I am surprised Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asitis Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 6 hours ago, woolley said: It is astounding that this keeps cropping up. Does anyone really believe that the film industry did not facilitate a lot of money coming to the Island over many years? You have to look at all sides of the equation. Cinemanx, Pinewood, share dealings, film expenses, film sales and VAT. If we had never set up Isle of Man Film we would be even further in the mire than we are now, that is for sure. The problem for me Wooley is that Eddie Teare never answered a straight question about the whole issue, anything that it would have been useful to know was commercially confidential ,and the behind the scenes management arrangements protected the smoke and mirror issues ! Under these circumstances it is hardly surprising that the man in the street will lock on to a proven financial loss and wish to ask questions about it ! The situation may well be as you allude to, but the protagonists in the saga certainly did themselves no favours when using vast amounts of other peoples money, then avoiding even the simplest of questions ! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uhtred Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, WTF said: ah, the magic word, VAT. some creative accounting saw us getting far more VAT back than we were actually entitle to ( not just film shit ) and the rug got pulled with the help of big mouths boasting about it. Let’s just focus that a little more shall we? Prize big mouth was that equally prize prick Tony Brown gobbing off at his showpiece and unnecessary white-tie dinner at the Mansion House in London in 2008. “Look how very well off we are for such a little Island” he said...in front of half the UK Treasury. Knobhead. Edited July 18, 2018 by Uhtred 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howard Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 Saying there was a £26 million loss is just a short-sighted, small-minded interpretation from a low IQ bean counter who can't think outside of a silo mindset. In the grand scheme of things, there was no loss to the taxpayer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 46 minutes ago, Uhtred said: Let’s just focus that a little more shall we? Prize big mouth was that equally prize prick Tony Brown gobbing off at his showpiece and unnecessary white-tie dinner at the Mansion House in London in 2008. “Look how very well off we are for such a little Island” he said...in front of half the UK Treasury. Knobhead. As I recall, Annie Craine made a small contribution too? "There is no recession (or credit crunch, maybe?) on the Island; the IoM is open for business". To the best of my recollection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gettafa Posted July 18, 2018 Author Share Posted July 18, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Uhtred said: Let’s just focus that a little more shall we? Prize big mouth was that equally prize prick Tony Brown gobbing off at his showpiece and unnecessary white-tie dinner at the Mansion House in London in 2008. “Look how very well off we are for such a little Island” he said...in front of half the UK Treasury. Knobhead. I think you will find the real harm done was by the Isle of Man government local guests. Big fish in a small pond were too arrogant to realise they were suddenly small - very small - fish in a big pond. Arrogance does that. Edited July 18, 2018 by gettafa 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asitis Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 (edited) If one lesson should be learned from this it is that Government should not invest other peoples money into anything which, 1. They feel unable to answer straight questions on ! and 2. Is open to so many interpretations of the intangibles involved in coming to a conclusion that it is probably correct to say that very few people can even guess at where this ended up ! Thats the thing about "low IQ bean counters" they do deal in tangible benefits ! intangibles don't pay the gas bill !! Edited July 18, 2018 by asitis tense 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Gay'n Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 Has anyone considered Mr Shimmins former employment? Could RBS have been involved in the VAT gravy-train perhaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howard Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 1 hour ago, asitis said: If one lesson should be learned from this it is that Government should not invest other peoples money into anything which, 1. They feel unable to answer straight questions on ! and 2. Is open to so many interpretations of the intangibles involved in coming to a conclusion that it is probably correct to say the very few people can even guess at where this ended up ! Thats the thing about "low IQ bean counters" they do deal in tangible benefits ! intangibles don't pay the gas bill !! But they fail to see the big picture and see how intangibles do lead to tangibles and vice versa. Also, I'm not sure I'd go with any bean counter on the island who hasn't already switched to oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galen Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Shimmin's comments reflect a modern day bankers' mentality namely, 'if it is someone else's money why should I bother?'. The bankers who have graced our Parliament over the years (e.g. Earnshaw, Teare, Shimmin) did/do not have a particularly good record either before, or once, they joined the IOM political bandwagon, and there is little evidence that any of them brought particular financial acumen to improving Govt finances. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Colombe Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 It isn't just bankers who work in banks you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 It is important to investigate. Otherwise they'll just continue to apply the same useless economics on cruise ship terminals, business enterprise, the steam racket and other perceived 'govt get rich quick' schemes. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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