LightBulb Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 20 hours ago, asitis said: On a serious note, did this have a large bearing on the position we find ourselves in now re the VAT agreement ? You could say the same thing about the MEA loan, in that case the answer would have to be yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uhtred Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 Intuitively, I think the reluctance in some quarters to open this can of worms is indeed because it will shine more light on what a monumental scam the VAT issue actually was - with film at the heart of it. I share the view that a costly analysis would bring limited value. But PAC is a standing committee of Tynwald anyway, so provided they don’t piss away 6 figure sums excessively hiring experts, let them have a crack at it. The extent to which they report, or not, may be illuminating in itself. As for Shimmins and Beecroft, this is being portrayed as a “him v her” alignment. Ok, I suppose in a sense it is, but take a step back and actually it reveals simply that both are pushing their own personal agenda, not actually trying to achieve a better “national” outcome. Shimmins is defending the business/commercial environment where public accountability doesn’t exist, only to shareholders, and is either cynical or thick if he thinks he can gloss over the issue. “Hell hath no fury like a fucking useless woman Health Minister scorned” Beecroft, who as interestedman says, is arguably the worst Tynwald cocktail of whinging, complaining and incompetence in living memory, seeks to claw her way back into public consciousness - and fuck up COMIN on the way - with her equally cynical campaign to expose the truth. How righteous of her . Yeah, right... Both of these individuals are exemplars of why the man and woman in Strand Street wouldn’t piss on a burning MHK. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hissingsid Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 Well said Uhtred could not have put it better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asitis Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 In which case it's a pity someone we respect isn't asking the same questions ? ! 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hissingsid Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 Yes, problem has always been with Beecroft she never stops asking questions, some of which are probably well founded but she goes on so much about anything and everything people just switch off or dismiss her as a bitter person who is obsessed with revenge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gettafa Posted July 21, 2018 Author Share Posted July 21, 2018 4 hours ago, asitis said: In which case it's a pity someone we respect isn't asking the same questions ? ! No one else of this lot will stick their head above the parapet. They all want to be part of the mighty Tynwald gang, get invited to all the parties, go on the best jollies, get the cosy jobs, not get shunned in the canteen etc. etc. They all know which side their bread is buttered. And the Tynwald mafia knows where they live. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uhtred Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 9 hours ago, gettafa said: No one else of this lot will stick their head above the parapet. They all want to be part of the mighty Tynwald gang, get invited to all the parties, go on the best jollies, get the cosy jobs, not get shunned in the canteen etc. etc. They all know which side their bread is buttered. And the Tynwald mafia knows where they live. True sadly. The compliant, non-boat-rocking, challenge-averse ambience that settled over this Tynwald in minutes is a gross disservice to democracy. Now and again Hooper looks as if he’s up for a proper debate but I can’t shake off the feeling that he’s principally doing it simply to look like a clever-arse. He needs to ditch LibVan too...asap. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uhtred Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 11 hours ago, hissingsid said: Yes, problem has always been with Beecroft she never stops asking questions, some of which are probably well founded but she goes on so much about anything and everything people just switch off or dismiss her as a bitter person who is obsessed with revenge. You didn’t add the two most resonant elements of her CV...a walking disaster as Health Minister and thick with it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 21 minutes ago, Uhtred said: The compliant, non-boat-rocking, challenge-averse ambience that settled over this Tynwald in minutes is a gross disservice to democracy. More than exemplified when the new intake of MLCs are hauled before the Grant-Receiver-in-Chief and warned off before they've even started. Regardless of that though, I believe that Tynwald will do its utmost to obstruct any inquiry into this. If only on grounds of face saving and protecting some of its favoured past members. It will be yet more strips torn out of its cloak of authority and competence to govern - which is starting to look more than a little moth eaten anyway. 5 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gettafa Posted July 22, 2018 Author Share Posted July 22, 2018 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Uhtred said: You didn’t add the two most resonant elements of her CV...a walking disaster as Health Minister and thick with it. I wouldn't call KB thick. And remember that in the land of plumbers*, painters, postmen and fridge fixers the person who can add up an account sheet is king/queen. ETA * I think Quirkie has officially gone, but I liked it when he was around, he supplied the nice alliteration. Edited July 22, 2018 by gettafa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2112 Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 15 minutes ago, gettafa said: I wouldn't call KB thick. And remember that in the land of plumbers*, painters, postmen and fridge fixers the person who can add up an account sheet is king/queen. ETA * I think Quirkie has officially gone, but I liked it when he was around, he supplied the nice alliteration. Compared to some members of Tynpotwald past and present, Quirky positively had some intelligence. There are some members I would say are dimmer than a new lowest energy lightbulb. I don’t think HRH The Chief Minister and the People’s Prince have much in the intellectual department either. Allinson being a medicine man by rights should be the most intelligent, unfortunately Chris Thomas whilst being a nice person, uses his intelligence and bores you into submission. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipper99 Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 Quirk? Intelligence? That’s oxymoron. If he’d had two brain cells rattling around in his thick skull neither would be bright enough to find the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 19 hours ago, Uhtred said: As for Shimmins and Beecroft, this is being portrayed as a “him v her” alignment. Ok, I suppose in a sense it is, but take a step back and actually it reveals simply that both are pushing their own personal agenda, not actually trying to achieve a better “national” outcome. Shimmins is defending the business/commercial environment where public accountability doesn’t exist, only to shareholders, and is either cynical or thick if he thinks he can gloss over the issue. “Hell hath no fury like a fucking useless woman Health Minister scorned” Beecroft, who as interestedman says, is arguably the worst Tynwald cocktail of whinging, complaining and incompetence in living memory, seeks to claw her way back into public consciousness - and fuck up COMIN on the way - with her equally cynical campaign to expose the truth. How righteous of her . Yeah, right... It seems to me that in government the "Public Health" portfolio is always the Poisoned Chalice of politics. Therefore it follows that you should always put your brightest and best on it. If, as a leader, you fail to do this then you, as the responsible person, are equally as culpable when it inevitably fucks up. Have to say the future looks none too bright either..... One basic rule of financial management is that if you can't measure it then it has no value. Zip, zilch, zero, nada. The nebulous anecdotal so-called "measurements" of the return on this fund would indicate that a loss was inevitable. I don't like the "in the grand scheme of things" philisophical "just another IOMG fuck-up" for the simple reason it's cost over £700 per household. Most households would find that a useful sum. Now if you can't measure the outputs then the activity simply can't be managed. This seems to me to be the reason a look at the whole farrago would not be welcome.... 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gettafa Posted July 22, 2018 Author Share Posted July 22, 2018 (edited) 50 minutes ago, P.K. said: It seems to me that in government the "Public Health" portfolio is always the Poisoned Chalice of politics. Therefore it follows that you should always put your brightest and best on it. If, as a leader, you fail to do this then you, as the responsible person, are equally as culpable when it inevitably fucks up. Have to say the future looks none too bright either..... Yeah ok, it's the poisoned chalice of politics. It certainly doesn't follow that you put your brightest and best in the job. Howard himself was there, so was Anderson - I don't mean to sound offensive as such, but neither of those two could be described as bright. Anderson just kept quiet with a bit of a smirk on his face and let the CS sort it all out while keeping his phone guarded by his secretary. Howard found his fat knacker soul mate in Charters ('member him?) Point to note. When Howard became Emperor of the Isle of Man his two longest serving available MHKs were Beecroft and Cregeen. Edited July 22, 2018 by gettafa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 1 hour ago, P.K. said: It seems to me that in government the "Public Health" portfolio is always the Poisoned Chalice of politics. Therefore it follows that you should always put your brightest and best on it. If, as a leader, you fail to do this then you, as the responsible person, are equally as culpable when it inevitably fucks up. Have to say the future looks none too bright either..... 1 hour ago, gettafa said: Yeah ok, it's the poisoned chalice of politics. It certainly doesn't follow that you put your brightest and best in the job. Howard himself was there, so was Anderson - I don't mean to sound offensive as such, but neither of those two could be described as bright. Anderson just kept quiet with a bit of a smirk on his face and let the CS sort it all out while keeping his phone guarded by his secretary. Howard found his fat knacker soul mate in Charters ('member him?) Point to note. When Howard became Emperor of the Isle of Man his two longest serving available MHKs were Beecroft and Cregeen. Of course you have to balance ability with experience. But it is the toughest call. So if I didn't put my best chance of success in the role then I'm essentially preparing to fail. That's not what you call leadership... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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