Shimmins' comments an 'insult to residents of the Isle of Man'

[2112]

38 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said:

It is important to investigate. Otherwise they'll just continue to apply the same useless economics on cruise ship terminals, business enterprise, the steam racket and other perceived 'govt get rich quick' schemes.

 

I can’t understand why Shimmins wants to sit on these select committees, glorified talking shite shops. After all, if you apply Shimmins logic to Government spending, then we live in an authoritarian state with no controls. It could be argued by some that Government has something to hide, whilst some may allege that fraudulent practices may have occurred. That’s why investigations need to be carried out, lessons need to be learned!

[gettafa]

12 hours ago, Boo Gay'n said:

Has anyone considered Mr Shimmins former employment?  Could RBS have been involved in the VAT gravy-train perhaps?

Oh but he was a banker and must be cleverer than a painter, plumber or postman. That is how Manx politics work.

Was it bankers that allowed the MEA illegal loans to go ahead. Or was it advocates? or was it both?

[Non-Believer]

1 hour ago, Albert Tatlock said:

It is important to investigate. Anyway, they'll just continue to apply the same useless economics on cruise ship terminals, business enterprise, the steam racket and other perceived 'govt get rich quick' schemes.

 

Fixed....

[b4mbi]

I agree with Wooley - let the whole thing lie. 

My speculation is that the main problem government have is that they cannot reveal the true amount they made out of the film industry (if indeed it is known!) , as there is a real risk that someone asks for it back!!

Then the taxpayers would be considerably worse off than a £27m write off, so their thinking is it really is not in the best interests of the Island for the whole matter again to be brought into the spotlight.

If they do investigate further, everything possible will be done to obfuscate the true amount of money that came into Government coffers from the film industry, to the extent that another enquiry/report will be a further waste of taxpayer money and risk losing much more than a £27m write off.

Despite the public's perception, I believe there are some very capable people in the civil service / treasury that understand above.

However, I can also understand that this looks like a democratic/transparency fail, but as it is, Government can't do anything without being instantly criticised by someone, and this is leading to further paralysis, nothing gets done because no-one will make a decision, in case of later fallout.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Neil Down]

8 minutes ago, b4mbi said:

I agree with Wooley - let the whole thing lie. 

My speculation is that the main problem government have is that they cannot reveal the true amount they made out of the film industry (if indeed it is known!) , as there is a real risk that someone asks for it back!!

Then the taxpayers would be considerably worse off than a £27m write off, so their thinking is it really is not in the best interests of the Island for the whole matter again to be brought into the spotlight.

If they do investigate further, everything possible will be done to obfuscate the true amount of money that came into Government coffers from the film industry, to the extent that another enquiry/report will be a further waste of taxpayer money and risk losing much more than a £27m write off.

Despite the public's perception, I believe there are some very capable people in the civil service / treasury that understand above.

However, I can also understand that this looks like a democratic/transparency fail, but as it is, Government can't do anything without being instantly criticised by someone, and this is leading to further paralysis, nothing gets done because no-one will make a decision, in case of later fallout.

 

 

 

 

 

 

They already are. They're called Manx Taxpayers...

[Non-Believer]

Would these be the same capable CS and Treasury people who oversaw V9, the World Series, MEA, the currency exchange debacle....etc etc?

[Albert Tatlock]

16 minutes ago, b4mbi said:

I agree with Wooley - let the whole thing lie. 

My speculation is that the main problem government have is that they cannot reveal the true amount they made out of the film industry (if indeed it is known!) , as there is a real risk that someone asks for it back!!

Then the taxpayers would be considerably worse off than a £27m write off, so their thinking is it really is not in the best interests of the Island for the whole matter again to be brought into the spotlight.

If they do investigate further, everything possible will be done to obfuscate the true amount of money that came into Government coffers from the film industry, to the extent that another enquiry/report will be a further waste of taxpayer money and risk losing much more than a £27m write off.

Despite the public's perception, I believe there are some very capable people in the civil service / treasury that understand above.

However, I can also understand that this looks like a democratic/transparency fail, but as it is, Government can't do anything without being instantly criticised by someone, and this is leading to further paralysis, nothing gets done because no-one will make a decision, in case of later fallout.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hang on a minute there...if it's a legitimate process, and I'm fairly sure you're talking about VAT, and the process was legal (loophole or not) then no one can ask for anything back. If the government are hiding stuff then we do have the right to know about it as that is very much in the public interest.

All these figures sit on a government balance sheet somewhere.

 

[b4mbi]

29 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said:

Hang on a minute there...if it's a legitimate process, and I'm fairly sure you're talking about VAT, and the process was legal (loophole or not) then no one can ask for anything back. If the government are hiding stuff then we do have the right to know about it as that is very much in the public interest.

All these figures sit on a government balance sheet somewhere.

 

The figures will have formed part of Government income under the VAT sharing agreement, until this was broadly revised in 2006 IIRC.

Agree with you on the bold part, but see how that washes with HMRC.

[b4mbi]

40 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

Would these be the same capable CS and Treasury people who oversaw V9, the World Series, MEA, the currency exchange debacle....etc etc?

Perhaps it's a lack of oversight and control.

In theory, Cabinet Office has overall responsibility for the departments (I think!). Are there not 2/3 people in Cabinet Office that have insight and control over all of the departments and what they are up to?

[Non-Believer]

24 minutes ago, b4mbi said:

Perhaps it's a lack of oversight and control.

In theory, Cabinet Office has overall responsibility for the departments (I think!). Are there not 2/3 people in Cabinet Office that have insight and control over all of the departments and what they are up to?

In their dreams maybe. In the same way that Mr Proffit was overseen (sorry to raise MEA again)?

The oversight has not the knowledge or experience. Their charges are "running out of control".

[Andy Onchan]

9 minutes ago, b4mbi said:

Perhaps it's a lack of oversight and control.

In theory, Cabinet Office has overall responsibility for the departments (I think!). Are there not 2/3 people in Cabinet Office that have insight and control over all of the departments and what they are up to?

The Cabinet Office of today is not the same Cabinet Office of previous administrations, who seemed to treat taxpayers money as.... well, not actually taxpayers money at all!

Remember that famous quote by Eddie??!!

Now that we no longer have any interest in films per se, there is no reason why a full-blown PAC investigation/enquiry should not take place. Consequently, Shimmins can go swivel as far as I am concerned. I can't believe he doesn't have constituents who also wonder WTF has happened to all that cash! 

If anyone is in any doubt as to the efficacy or otherwise of this (mis)adventure and to put this in context with other parts of executive government, then they should read the PAC Hansard report on Health & Social Care and the grilling that the Director of Hospitals got recently (page 126 from question 394 onwards). 

So, Mr. Shimmins try putting things in perspective and ask yourself why the Director of Hospitals has to justify how he spends his money, or not as the case may be whilst you are encouraging others to turn a blind eye to what has happened with the media fund. Next time you have a constituent who has issues with the hospital, think about how that £26 million could have potentially helped YOUR constituent.   

[WTF]

if we made more on the VAT fiddle that we wrote off  why not just offset the loss against the profit and say we made money,  just not as much, and say the 27 million was a 'cost'

[gettafa]

Where did that £27million go? It didn't just disappear, it went somewhere.

Where?

[WTF]

other peoples lifestyle enhancements at a guess......................

[Non-Believer]

12 minutes ago, WTF said:

other peoples lifestyle enhancements at a guess......................

And the costs of our own representatives who availed themselves fully of the opportunities to cavort and showboat at the likes of the Cannes festivals at the taxpayer's expense?