TT 2020 cost £960,000.00.

[Non-Believer]

3 minutes ago, P.K. said:

But they have places worth visiting like the unique and incomparable Skara Brae.

We've got the unique and incomparable Douglas Promenade....

[Boris Johnson]

5 hours ago, Derek Flint said:

 

But do we need tourists? It’s 1% of GDP overall. Do we spend a disproportionate amount of time and money chasing them?

Lots. Per head their spend is much higher when on Island. A friend closely involved worked the figs out and presented them to DFE. They had no idea it was so lucrative!

There was/is a rally championship consisting of the old Group B cars that were banned for wiping out entire villages when they went off the road at warp 9.  I stumbled across a round of it in Germany many years ago while on holiday.

A proper Group B rally car is the most exciting mechanical beast we will never see the like of again. If that championship is still going and could be brought over, there would be hundreds of thousands spent in the local economy. The participants are mostly multi millionaires and they don't skimp on anything, not for them sleeping in a tent and drinking warm beer.

That is the kind of event we should go after. No deaths either...…………………………..

[Non-Believer]

1 minute ago, Boris Johnson said:

There was/is a rally championship consisting of the old Group B cars that were banned for wiping out entire villages when they went off the road at warp 9.  I stumbled across a round of it in Germany many years ago while on holiday.

A proper Group B rally car is the most exciting mechanical beast we will never see the like of again. If that championship is still going and could be brought over, there would be hundreds of thousands spent in the local economy. The participants are mostly multi millionaires and they don't skimp on anything, not for them sleeping in a tent and drinking warm beer.

That is the kind of event we should go after. No deaths either...…………………………..

Henri Toivinen?

[hissingsid]

Pastwt. You are absolutely correct regarding the marshalls and the non cooperation they get.   People marshalling for the first time get a pack and as for training that is not applicable if you come over and volunteer there are some locals trained but not a lot overall It is a big safety concern and has led to death and dreadful accidents.

[Boris Johnson]

1 minute ago, Non-Believer said:

Henri Toivinen?

Rings a bell

[Max Power]

6 hours ago, Derek Flint said:

 

But do we need tourists? It’s 1% of GDP overall. Do we spend a disproportionate amount of time and money chasing them?

Lots. Per head their spend is much higher when on Island. A friend closely involved worked the figs out and presented them to DFE. They had no idea it was so lucrative!

I think our GDP has been distorted by some potentially transient industries Derek. Tourism is a rock which needs redeveloping.

2 hours ago, joebean said:

Ok, but what should the strategy be? Presenting the Island as it is does not appear to be working as the number of visitors remains stubbornly small, as does the GDP contribution. There are too many vested interests having an input into the tourism strategy. Heritage might have a part to play but it is not the major attraction that it is assumed to be. The results speak for themselves. It’s a difficult market that needs some difficult and new decisions before any progress can be made. 

Absolutely, and it does civil servants no justice to give them responsibility for developing a tourism offer to then be constrained by government bureaucracy, even if they do have the skills and imagination.

2 hours ago, VinnieK said:

Surely the counter argument to that is that tourism helps diversify the economy, brings money into predominantly locally run and owned business and those supporting them, and helps make transport links (which we all benefit from) more viable than they otherwise would be.

That's not to say that our tourist strategy couldn't benefit from change, but citing the share of GDP doesn't actually mean a great deal; you could use the same argument to say that we should stop 'chasing' Engineering firms, since they contribute less than 1% to GDP.  In fact, I'm not sure share of GDP is that useful a measure in any case, compared with, say, domestic employment figures and government revenue via VAT and direct taxation.  

Tourism could maintain the vibrancy of local life also, making it a good place to live and work all year round. If businesses are viable, they will offer more and there will be more choice through competition.

The tourism sector can offer employment opportunities, like the engineering sector, and people earning can in return spend money in the entertainment sector. We should be looking at year round tourism, it works in other places such as Killarney, their 'off season' is December and January! Perhaps we should look at what they have done, apparently one visionary hotelier transformed their whole local economy. 

[paswt]

24 minutes ago, hissingsid said:

Pastwt. You are absolutely correct regarding the marshalls and the non cooperation they get.   People marshalling for the first time get a pack and as for training that is not applicable if you come over and volunteer there are some locals trained but not a lot overall It is a big safety concern and has led to death and dreadful accidents.

I have attended 2 incident training courses ( valid for 3 years) . In 2014 I needed to attend another but was advised by the lady at the TTMA hut  that as I was not a Deputy Sector Marshal " it wasn't really worth me attending", perhaps because of my age ( 68 at the time) as well (?)  . I said I would be prepared to attend a training course on the island at very short notice if they changed their minds ............ Have they contacted me??? .........have they Buxton!

 We do now have a DSM at my marshalling point , managed without one for years  (with the same crew ) they appointed one of us (without actually asking him, so no change there then) .

I'm told I'm now a "novice marshal" which suits me fine , feel sorry for the DSM now the powers that be decided that that "race control" and the DSM  decide the manning levels , 3 at my point .We  had 3 bikes and riders down last MGP  , fortunately we were "mob handed", for us , (5 marshals including a 'novice' St John trained and a Medic) .If we weren't and we hadn't managed to stop riders guess who would have copped the flack at a coroners inquest ( I've attended a few when I (sorry for the "when-I ") was an enforcing H&S Inspector) .

If I was the DSM I would expect any competent advocate to ask me if the manning levels were adequate , and being unable to justify 3 as adequate ( one on the flag, one with 3 riders , one clearing the 3 bike debris with a shovel in one hand ,cement dust in the other and a broom placed in the only place available to sweep up while walking up the track ) would be told that I should have stopped the racing and if I had their client would still be alive.............  I could then  be sued as a second respondent and given the history of TT/MGP management abdicating responsibility in the past ..............

I've given up emailing the TTMA with concerns about rider safety issues  as they never respond and face to face discussions result in all parties abdicating responsibility .

Just saying 

[Max Power]

2 hours ago, paswt said:

Absolutely agree  the Gov and it's clueless employees did exactly that with "Jurby Day" , a well run and successful event ran by a" bunch of OAP bike enthusiasts" ( a term used by IOM 'management' ), which IMO  embarrassed the governments "Motor Sport Team" and encouraged them to to kill it .

The government now run Jurby and if you want to spectate at a race day the government will charge you £20 just to park your car  ....... Unbelievable  

Don't get me started on the organisation of the TT/MGP , the lack of communication   between the marshals and those in charge is staggering ( emails in relation to safety issues raised by marshals are studiously and repeatably ignored ) they would do well to carry out 'exit interviews' on those marshals who have called it a day (and then "they" may learn something ! ).The expression "Lions led by Donkeys springs to mind.

just saying

Agree with Jurby Day, how to kill an event which is a major part of their own offering in one easy lesson. The problem there is the usual IoM Government 'Silo Thinking'! The DofE see the benefits and support it, the likes of the DoI want their cut of the action and start a battle which kills the whole thing. Idiots! 

2 hours ago, hissingsid said:

Pastwt. You are absolutely correct regarding the marshalls and the non cooperation they get.   People marshalling for the first time get a pack and as for training that is not applicable if you come over and volunteer there are some locals trained but not a lot overall It is a big safety concern and has led to death and dreadful accidents.

Strange, I attended the very first IMC course in 1997 and another three refreshers after that plus several first aid courses and other refreshers every year to update life saving techniques and fire training. Last year I attended a condensed version of the full course (minus the first aid segment as I'm not a marshal) which was a totally new format. I know that the TTMA have been travelling the country doing these courses up until Covid? There is also the online training module which I believe has to be completed by everyone. As I mentioned, novices do have to be placed with an experienced marshal so they should only be a spare pair of hands?

I'm a bit concerned if safety concerns are not being passed on, who is ignoring you?

https://www.iomttmarshals.com/updates/imc-training-courses-spring-2020

https://www.iomttmarshals.com/legal/complaints-policy-procedure

[woolley]

1 hour ago, paswt said:

I have attended 2 incident training courses ( valid for 3 years) . In 2014 I needed to attend another but was advised by the lady at the TTMA hut  that as I was not a Deputy Sector Marshal " it wasn't really worth me attending", perhaps because of my age ( 68 at the time) as well (?)  . I said I would be prepared to attend a training course on the island at very short notice if they changed their minds ............ Have they contacted me??? .........have they Buxton!

 We do now have a DSM at my marshalling point , managed without one for years  (with the same crew ) they appointed one of us (without actually asking him, so no change there then) .

I'm told I'm now a "novice marshal" which suits me fine , feel sorry for the DSM now the powers that be decided that that "race control" and the DSM  decide the manning levels , 3 at my point .We  had 3 bikes and riders down last MGP  , fortunately we were "mob handed", for us , (5 marshals including a 'novice' St John trained and a Medic) .If we weren't and we hadn't managed to stop riders guess who would have copped the flack at a coroners inquest ( I've attended a few when I (sorry for the "when-I ") was an enforcing H&S Inspector) .

If I was the DSM I would expect any competent advocate to ask me if the manning levels were adequate , and being unable to justify 3 as adequate ( one on the flag, one with 3 riders , one clearing the 3 bike debris with a shovel in one hand ,cement dust in the other and a broom placed in the only place available to sweep up while walking up the track ) would be told that I should have stopped the racing and if I had their client would still be alive.............  I could then  be sued as a second respondent and given the history of TT/MGP management abdicating responsibility in the past ..............

I've given up emailing the TTMA with concerns about rider safety issues  as they never respond and face to face discussions result in all parties abdicating responsibility .

Just saying 

It beats me why people do it nowadays with the lack of consideration, the blame culture and litigious society that we have. They just take it for granted that the marshals will always be there. Will the management be standing behind you if the finger of blame is pointed? 

"It's the same the whole world over.
It's the poor that gets the blame.
It's the rich that gets the pleasure.
Ain't it all a bleeding shame?"

You must all be extremely dedicated.

[Derek Flint]

 

 

2 hours ago, Boris Johnson said:

There was/is a rally championship consisting of the old Group B cars that were banned for wiping out entire villages when they went off the road at warp 9.  I stumbled across a round of it in Germany many years ago while on holiday.

A proper Group B rally car is the most exciting mechanical beast we will never see the like of again. If that championship is still going and could be brought over, there would be hundreds of thousands spent in the local economy. The participants are mostly multi millionaires and they don't skimp on anything, not for them sleeping in a tent and drinking warm beer.

That is the kind of event we should go after. No deaths either...…………………………..

We looked at a development of Supertour with this sort of thing - up the Mountain, through the Bungalow, right at Brandywell, finish at Sartfield. A sort of low level Pikes Peak. But after the difficulties put in our way over Supertour, we quietly forgot about it. 

Shame really.

[Max Power]

4 minutes ago, Derek Flint said:

 

 

We looked at a development of Supertour with this sort of thing - up the Mountain, through the Bungalow, right at Brandywell, finish at Sartfield. A sort of low level Pikes Peak. But after the difficulties put in our way over Supertour, we quietly forgot about it. 

Shame really.

For those in IoM Govt. it's the easy Nancy Regan option, just say no! You can't be held responsible then.

[finlo]

14 minutes ago, Max Power said:

For those in IoM Govt. it's the easy Nancy Regan option, just say no! You can't be held responsible then.

"The Isle of Man where you can't"

[Derek Flint]

1 hour ago, Max Power said:

For those in IoM Govt. it's the easy Nancy Regan option, just say no! You can't be held responsible then.

I could never quite fathom that. All we wanted was the roads off them. We were a competent operator- we’d convinced the insurers of that, and the credentials of our officials were impeccable. Nobody in Government was, to my knowledge sufficiently expert or qualified beyond their levels of expertise to suggest otherwise.

It would have been quite an event!

[TheTeapot]

7 minutes ago, Derek Flint said:

I could never quite fathom that. All we wanted was the roads off them. We were a competent operator- we’d convinced the insurers of that, and the credentials of our officials were impeccable. Nobody in Government was, to my knowledge sufficiently expert or qualified beyond their levels of expertise to suggest otherwise.

It would have been quite an event!

Who did you offer the brown envelope to?

[finlo]

1 hour ago, TheTeapot said:

Who did you offer the brown envelope to?

Or not as the case may be.