Manx Gas MEGA Price Rise

[Happier diner]

10 minutes ago, cissolt said:

Just bringing this into the main manxgas thread. Mua made 1.1million buying gas for manxgas. 

Lower purchases of gas for Manx gas sounds to me like the MUA supply gas to Manx gas.

I bet they won't make much this year

[SleepyJoe]

It's one to watch!

[Amadeus]

???

[WTF]

6 minutes ago, Amadeus said:

???

like mannin line where the presenter argues both sides of the coin.

[forestboy]

5 minutes ago, WTF said:

like mannin line where the presenter argues both sides of the coin.

Useless Wint would argue that night is day. 

[WTF]

14 minutes ago, forestboy said:

Useless Wint would argue that night is day. 

loves the sound of his own voice.

[Will Halsall]

For those not on Facebook, this is what Jason Moorhouse posted earlier:

 

Good Morning,

Please stay warm and Turn the heating ‘On’ when you need to…

I know, that many of you are REALLY worried about the increase in gas prices.

This is a dreadful position for the Island’s people and businesses to be in. If the Government’s role were to extend beyond regulations to direct support, in an attempt to remove the impact of price rises the cost would be over £10 million this winter. As a small jurisdiction with limited finances we can mitigate the impact, but we cannot affect the gas price increases. This is a deeply worrying situation.

Yesterday morning, we had the most challenging Tynwald debate for many years. The choice faced by Members was extreme:

EITHER:  Support a rise in gas prices that will directly impact on the lives of Island people and businesses.

OR: Take a King Canute style decision and say ‘No!’

The problem of voting ‘No!’ or even delaying the vote as Mrs Christian suggested placed us in real danger of the gas being switched off.

*The two key factors in making this decision were:

• Limited data was available on the exact nature of the financial challenges being faced by Manx Gas.  The data which was provided several weeks ago did suggest the company was in a viable financial position until February, but don’t most companies place a ‘positive gloss’ on their finances and prices had reached new highs since then.

• Manx Gas is currently being placed in the impossible position of selling gas for less than it cost and on the day before the debate prices recorded a record high as the expectation that Russia would increase supplies to Europe was dashed.

From my perspective, a significant loss on each unit being sold, a record price being set for deliveries in November and no real clarity over the finances of the company beyond the February date left me incredibly concerned. 

The worst case scenario that we faced yesterday morning, from my perspective was that the company could potentially follow UK peers into administration and if that were to happen, there was the possibility the Administrator’s first task would be to cut costs and turn off the gas. Potentially leaving the Manx Government in a most impossible of positions as one of the Island’s key fuel sources and energy networks was closed for hours, days, months or even years….

My priorities yesterday morning were to ensure:

1. The gas kept flowing.
2. The support was in place for those people with low fixed incomes
3. Businesses were being considered at this most challenging of times.

Ahead of the Tynwald Sitting Manx Gas did confirm that they would make support available through the Salvation Army.

The Treasury Ministers response was positive:

‘I’D LIKE TO TAKE THIS OPPORTUNTIY TO CONFIRM TO THIS HONOURABLE COURT TREASURY’S INTENTION TO PROVIDE ADDITIONAL FINANCIAL SUPPORT TO HELP THOSE ON THE LOWEST INCOMES TO MEET THE LIKELY INCREASE IN THEIR GAS BILLS OVER THE WINTER PERIOD, SHOULD THIS MOTION BE APPROVED AND THE GAS TARIFF INCREASED AS A CONSEQUENCE. 

THIS ADDITIONAL SUPPORT WOULD BE PROVIDED THROUGH THE SOCIAL SECURITY WINTER BONUS SCHEME. THIS SCHEME PROVIDES FOR LUMP-SUM PAYMENTS TO BE MADE TO CERTAIN RECIPIENTS OF INCOME-RELATED BENEFITS IN JANUARY EACH YEAR WHICH WOULD BE ALSO AT THE POINT OF THE FIRST INCREASED BILLS BEING ISSUED. 
FOR INCOME SUPPORT RECIPIENTS WHO WOULD ORDINARILY QUALIFY FOR THE £350 WINTER BONUS, THE AMOUNT WOULD BE INCREASED BY £100 – THAT IS, TO £450. 
BUT TREASURY DOES RECOGNISE THAT NOT EVERYONE IN RECEIPT OF INCOME SUPPORT CURRENTLY QUALIFIES FOR THE WINTER FUEL PAYMENTS. SO FOR CERTAIN OTHER INCOME SUPPORT RECIPIENTS AND EMPLOYED PERSON’S ALLOWANCE RECIPIENTS WHO AREN’T CURRENTLY ELIGIBLE FOR THE WINTER BONUS, THEY WOULD GET A £100 WINTER BONUS PAYMENT IF, AMONG OTHER THINGS, THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE PAYMENT OF HOUSING COSTS. 
THE USE OF BENEFITS AS A MEASURE CAN ALSO SOMETIMES BE A BLUNT TOOL MR PRESIDENT AND CAN LEAD TO CLIFF EDGES WHERE PEOPLE ARE JUST OUTSIDE OF THE QUALIFYING INCOME THREASHOLD BUT STILL STRUGGLING. I AM THEREFORE ALSO COMMITING TO, SHOULD THIS MOTION PASS HERE TODAY, INTRODUCUING A VARIABLE RATE WINTER BONUS, TARGETED AT PEOPLE WHO HAVE INCOMES JUST ABOVE INCOME SUPPORT LEVELS, WHICH WOULD BE WORTH BETWEEN £25 AND £75 DEPENDING ON INDIVIDUAL CIRCUMSTANCES AND INCOME’.

Minister Hooper also provided some reassurance about the impact on businesses.

I hope this short article will provide some reassurance.

Yesterday, Tynwald Members were working with imperfect knowledge and a massive potential impact. The outcome will affect many of the Island’s people, but changes in prices are manageable with the innovative support mechanisms that are being introduced.

 At this point, the increased costs will NOT be seen in gas bills until January and even then the changes that were supported yesterday will be nowhere near the doubling of bills that many of have seen being experienced by families on the UK media channels.

This is not a good situation to be in, but hopefully the situation with appropriate government support can now be dealt with in a reasonable way by the Island’s people.

The bottom and most important line is – Please DO NOT be afraid to turn your heating on.

Jason.

[cissolt]

So if the threat of the gas being turned off was presented, who would be turning off the gas?  The MUA would stop supplying it to Manx gas? 

[Happier diner]

26 minutes ago, cissolt said:

So if the threat of the gas being turned off was presented, who would be turning off the gas?  The MUA would stop supplying it to Manx gas? 

I guess Manx Gas would turn it off as they left the building or, as you say, the MUA could disconnect them for unpaid bills

It would have to be turned off if there was no one to maintain it otherwise what would happen first time there was a leak (which would be within days). There would be no one to isolate it and repair it. It would be unsafe to let it run.

[Ramseyboi]

7 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

I guess Manx Gas would turn it off as they left the building or, as you say, the MUA could disconnect them for unpaid bills

It would have to be turned off if there was no one to maintain it otherwise what would happen first time there was a leak (which would be within days). There would be no one to isolate it and repair it. It would be unsafe to let it run.

Or the lack of insurance cover due to unpaid bills would lead to it being turned off.

Or unpaid bills to the software provider for the safety systems.

Or one of many other scenarios that could be bought about by Manx gas going bust regardless of where the gas comes from.

[Non-Believer]

1 hour ago, Will Halsall said:

*The two key factors in making this decision were:

• Limited data was available on the exact nature of the financial challenges being faced by Manx Gas.

Yesterday, Tynwald Members were working with imperfect knowledge

These are the two key factors that leap out at me. Manx Gas has already proved remarkably adept at providing "limited data" about their finances in the past. Right up to and past the point when people took to the streets to display their concerns.

Our elected have clearly then taken a decision with financial consequences for a large sector of the Island WITHOUT being in full possession of the facts, by their own admittance.

[Happier diner]

30 minutes ago, Ramseyboi said:

Or the lack of insurance cover due to unpaid bills would lead to it being turned off.

Or unpaid bills to the software provider for the safety systems.

Or one of many other scenarios that could be bought about by Manx gas going bust regardless of where the gas comes from.

That's correct as well. There are multiple reasons they could not continue and safety being a key one.

Some people on here seem to think they are resellers like a lot of the UK companies that share infrastructure. They are not. They are a fully fledged utility. A small one admittedly, but they are the only utility on the island that distribute retail gas. They own the infrastructure (as far as I know) and they operate it and maintain it. On top of that they own and operate all the gas meters and bill accordingly. 

[Will Halsall]

45 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said:

On the first issue Manx Gas isn’t an independent company - Islands Energy Group owns it and Jersey and Guernsey Gas so you assume some group support would be there even if one group entity made a short term loss or had solvency issues. Secondly in that case are we subsidizing Jersey and Guernsey operations by making sure no group support is needed to keep the IOM company solvent which doesn’t seem clear and would certainly be unfair. Or are they now going to go to the Channel Islands government with the same sob story having legged us over? But an operating group often consists of cross P & L subsidies all the time - that’s why you often diversify a holding company across different operating businesses so when some companies underperform the others plug the gap. Here we just seem to have completely ignored the group position across all Islands and focussed on Manx Gas making a forecast loss. 

Please don’t be confused thinking they’re my words. I only cut and pasted what Jason Moorhouse posted on FB, for the benefit of those members not on there. Tbf to him, he seems to have been far more translucent and informative than other MHK’s, irrespective of whether we think he/they made the right decision. Joney (Honey came up as autocorrect then, eek) Faragher and Michelle Heywood were less clear on their pages.

This is exactly what our politicians should be using social media for!

What I do find disconcerting in his post is this sentence: Ahead of the Tynwald Sitting Manx Gas did confirm that they would make support available through the Salvation Army.

[SleepyJoe]

Better we diversify our energy sources than wait for MG to diversify their business

[Andy Onchan]

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/search?q=Ancala+Partners+LLP