Quarterbridge Roundabout - So Who's In The Wrong?

[PmJ]

43 minutes ago, dilligaf said:

I would love to quote Roly Drowers piece on the QB, but I am in Spain and the file is on my PC. Can anyone else post it ?

This one.

[Declan]

1 hour ago, hampsterkahn said:

 

1.In general, drivers  here tend to be   very  much more courteous  and less  aggressive than UK city drivers and are more likely to offer help if something goes wrong.

Seriously? Where are you comparing it to? Paris?

[hampsterkahn]

17 minutes ago, Declan said:

Seriously? Where are you comparing it to? Paris?

I was comparing “ UK city drivers” - that is drivers in cities that are in the UK ,as in London, Manchester,  Birmingham, GIasgow, Leeds  etc. but  no, not Paris.Being in France, that would just be confusing.

[Albert Tatlock]

There are still people stuck at Quarterbridge roundabout since at least 2010. Maybe we should start an appeal or something for them?

[x-in-man]

I came past at 11 mins past and it looked like they had gone, or turned to dust, or maybe they made it to the burger drive through in the end.

[Non-Believer]

A few years ago I failed a private driving assessment for a job in the UK on the grounds that I didn't drive "assertively or aggressively enough at roundabouts".

When I asked for clarification of this it transpired that I had been expected to show more faith in other drivers following the rules on said roundabouts and drive accordingly.

I explained that if I drove in that fashion on the IoM I would almost certainly end up being the cause of, or involved in a crash given most roundabout driving conduct exhibited here. The Assessor just looked at me....

[manxman1980]

On 5/2/2010 at 3:43 PM, manxy said:

Reference Albert, the car was indicating in the right hand lane and was travelling very slowly around the white dot as you cannot go fast at all to make the turn.

Car B hit car A's front bumper.

Car B's driver was in a hurry to get to work and was apparently late (afternoon)

That is the problem... 

For car B to have hit car A's bumper (and done enough damage to write car A off) it suggests the driver of car A was not paying attention to other traffic as presumable car B had entered the roundabout in front of car A.  So, whilst car B is technically in the wrong, the actions (or inaction) of the driver of car A was a contributory factor. 

The argument would be very different if car B had hit the side or rear of car A.  

Worth remembering that insurance claims are done under Civil Law (not criminal) and that the tests for proving innocence/guilt are different.  The insurers will not want to take the dispute through the courts and will be seeking a quick and inexpensive resolution. 

[woolley]

8 hours ago, Non-Believer said:

A few years ago I failed a private driving assessment for a job in the UK on the grounds that I didn't drive "assertively or aggressively enough at roundabouts".

When I asked for clarification of this it transpired that I had been expected to show more faith in other drivers following the rules on said roundabouts and drive accordingly.

I explained that if I drove in that fashion on the IoM I would almost certainly end up being the cause of, or involved in a crash given most roundabout driving conduct exhibited here. The Assessor just looked at me....

Bizarre.

[Non-Believer]

40 minutes ago, woolley said:

Bizarre.

Just to expand...a lot of the assessment was done including a big four or five roundabout system just outside Portsmouth. There was certainly no quarter given or asked for on any of them but it all still worked because people know how the system works including the basics of signalling (indicators) and giving way to the right. Far too much of which are apparently alien concepts over here. I clearly brought the caution necessary here with me and it wasn't appreciated.

That having all been said, we are talking about big properly constructed highway arrangements where the drills work properly too. Not our backlane X4-way junctions that have suddenly decided to sprout a mound of white sandtex in the middle.

[woolley]

3 hours ago, Non-Believer said:

Just to expand...a lot of the assessment was done including a big four or five roundabout system just outside Portsmouth. There was certainly no quarter given or asked for on any of them but it all still worked because people know how the system works including the basics of signalling (indicators) and giving way to the right. Far too much of which are apparently alien concepts over here. I clearly brought the caution necessary here with me and it wasn't appreciated.

That having all been said, we are talking about big properly constructed highway arrangements where the drills work properly too. Not our backlane X4-way junctions that have suddenly decided to sprout a mound of white sandtex in the middle.

Thanks NB. What prompted my response was the notion of being asked to undergo a private driving assessment for a job. I've always just asked to see that people have a clean licence and taken it at face value from there, unless there is cause for complaint later. Never had a problem adding new employees to the company insurance policy. Of course, I appreciate that the job you referenced may have been specialised. You could have been driving a tank to war for all I know.

As for Manx Roundabout Syndrome, I think it is a lot to do with the very small roundabouts that we have here. Not really roundabouts at all in the true sense of the word. This means that all of the entrance/exits are in close proximity and conflicting flows are on each other with little leeway for error. This breeds extreme caution.

If, say at QB, vehicles approach an empty mini-roundabout from all 3 directions, arriving at the line at the same instant which happens frequently, nobody actually has right of way. According to the rules they should all stop and all give way to the right. So they do, with the regular result that they all sit looking at each other thinking "shall I go, or is she going to go" etc. Nobody is in the wrong. It becomes a question of who is going to be the most assertive.

My strategy is to be assertive. Approach with the intention to keep going at a slow pace but fully in readiness to pull up sharp if needs be, i.e. if someone has the same idea as me but has less awareness. By taking the lead, this then gets the other 2 directions going in turn as I block one road giving a clear run to the driver coming in the opposite direction to me.

[alpha-acid]

22 minutes ago, woolley said:

Thanks NB. What prompted my response was the notion of being asked to undergo a private driving assessment for a job. I've always just asked to see that people have a clean licence and taken it at face value from there, unless there is cause for complaint later. Never had a problem adding new employees to the company insurance policy. Of course, I appreciate that the job you referenced may have been specialised. You could have been driving a tank to war for all I know.

As for Manx Roundabout Syndrome, I think it is a lot to do with the very small roundabouts that we have here. Not really roundabouts at all in the true sense of the word. This means that all of the entrance/exits are in close proximity and conflicting flows are on each other with little leeway for error. This breeds extreme caution.

If, say at QB, vehicles approach an empty mini-roundabout from all 3 directions, arriving at the line at the same instant which happens frequently, nobody actually has right of way. According to the rules they should all stop and all give way to the right. So they do, with the regular result that they all sit looking at each other thinking "shall I go, or is she going to go" etc. Nobody is in the wrong. It becomes a question of who is going to be the most assertive.

My strategy is to be assertive. Approach with the intention to keep going at a slow pace but fully in readiness to pull up sharp if needs be, i.e. if someone has the same idea as me but has less awareness. By taking the lead, this then gets the other 2 directions going in turn as I block one road giving a clear run to the driver coming in the opposite direction to me.

Exactly what I do when it looks like it's going to be a Mexican Standoff

[woolley]

3 minutes ago, alpha-acid said:

Exactly what I do when it looks like it's going to be a Mexican Standoff

See you at QB sometime, then!

[P.K.]

52 minutes ago, woolley said:

If, say at QB, vehicles approach an empty mini-roundabout from all 3 directions, arriving at the line at the same instant which happens frequently, nobody actually has right of way. According to the rules they should all stop and all give way to the right. So they do, with the regular result that they all sit looking at each other thinking "shall I go, or is she going to go" etc. Nobody is in the wrong. It becomes a question of who is going to be the most assertive.

My strategy is to be assertive. Approach with the intention to keep going at a slow pace but fully in readiness to pull up sharp if needs be, i.e. if someone has the same idea as me but has less awareness. By taking the lead, this then gets the other 2 directions going in turn as I block one road giving a clear run to the driver coming in the opposite direction to me.

Good job I'm driving the wife's car atm.

My driving style on island is strictly "no prisoners" therefore if you think you can get away with it you will find me in your way. And as you'll be hitting me, well, bad luck.

Experienced drivers know that cars have "body language" for want of a better expression. And I've reached the time in my life where I couldn't give a flying. The only thing I care about is not bending her cabriolet....!

[jah_pet]

When driving in a lane with clearly marked direction arrows you MUST follow them. You were in a lane clearly marked for turning right. This is your fault, quite frankly trying to do a u turn there is just plane stupid.

[Max Power]

I think that you will find that your claim is being handled by a claims management company and not your insurer. Most insurance companies employ a third party to save on staff costs, they are paid on how much they save the insurer from paying out! They will argue that black is white until the cows come home, so you need to make contact with your insurer directly and avoid the claim management company! Explain the circumstances and ask them to review how you have been treated.