Albert Tatlock Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 ...... with the Isle of Man seeking opportunities to distance itself more from the UK, and becoming more an entry/exit hub for the UK and Europe for goods and services. Already happening..... Agree, though I was more intimating it becoming independent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 ...... with the Isle of Man seeking opportunities to distance itself more from the UK, and becoming more an entry/exit hub for the UK and Europe for goods and services. Already happening..... Agree, though I was more intimating it becoming independent. I'm sure you're correct on that front as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Trumps Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 My question is: which Pension takes precedence, the PS or State? State. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the too many. Opinion or law? When a company goes bust owing creditors and the government, the government gets all assets first (unless e-habitant has a van in a nearby lane and a boat about to leave), then creditors, then staff. ETA: so when the IOMG can't pay both, will the OAPs on Marown get their Pension or will AB get his money in the Bahamas? The amounts involved are mind bogglingly staggering...I can actually see the day emergency legislation will need to be passed, and there will be actual reductions in what is paid out to AB et al. People should not underestimate what our liabilities are and are likely to become on the current trajectory. Tax over the next 20 years can go two ways in my view: 1) the current route, USA/UK scratching for money during their continued decline, destroying many opportunities for the Manx economy in the process b) the rise of china and other developing economies rejecting this worldwide approach to taxation etc. - with the Isle of Man seeking opportunities to distance itself more from the UK, and becoming more an entry/exit hub for the UK and Europe for goods and services. A great deal of thinking outside the box is required in this debate. Last century was about computers automating and replacing brawn, this century is about computers automating and replacing brains. Even as an engineer, computer engineer etc. given the changes I have already seen in the last 30 years, I find it hard to imagine what our economy might be like in 2050. Many common roles we see today, lawyers, even many doctors - god only knows what roles - may be entirely gone by then replaced by more intelligent machines. Software could even generate its own next version, with little or no human input other than users - users which might also be machines. Nursing homes might even be part automated care etc. Much will happen in 37 years, though I would agree future predictions tend to not pass as fast as they are often predicted. That's very well put Albert The whole world of work is going to change significantly over the next twenty years, and we need to start planning for a very different type of economy - might need to start taxing technology in some way to pay for island residents to take on different, community orientated new types of work Certainly the ridiculous structure of 'the bloat' has to go & work put out to community/social enterprise If Chris R. wants major debate he should join in here & so should others who see themselves in government post the 2016 election Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman8180 Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 If Chris R. wants major debate he should join in here & so should others who see themselves in government post the 2016 election Really? Join in here and 'debate' with the 3 or 4 posters who make any meaningful contribution on topics such as these? Engage with the electorate maybe, but this is not the right place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Trumps Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Where is then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 If Chris R. wants major debate he should join in here & so should others who see themselves in government post the 2016 election Really? Join in here and 'debate' with the 3 or 4 posters who make any meaningful contribution on topics such as these? Engage with the electorate maybe, but this is not the right place. How many will engage and how many will switch off? The mistake that is often made here by those who are interested in what is going on is that the masses are similarly enthused. They aren't. The electorate isn't all it's cracked up to be I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 talking about a 2 billion black hole would certainly get attention away from current fuck ups Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlo Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 I don't think there will be many people who have never worked from the age of 18 to 60/65. Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinnieK Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 I don't see how a rational debate can be held. Robertshaw announced a 'national debate' on benefits last year as well. That turned out to be little more than a ham fisted public consultation littered with questions leaning on the wrong side of leading, and this will be just the same. His branding it a 'national debate' is simply a fatuous and unimaginative imitation of Tony Blair's proposed 'Big Conversation' and similar nomenclature currently floating around in the UK press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Trumps Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Anyone know how these things are undertaken in Scandinavia? Logically you see value in combining state pensions, benefits & taxation so that everyone achieves a certain minimum standard of living, and only pays tax on earnings above that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon selector Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Robertshaw's megalomania is getting the better of him with all this stuff. If he goes through the motions of havinga 'national debate' he will be able to claim democracy has been done. He'll make his decisions very much regardless anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moghrey Mie Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 I don't think there will be many people who have never worked from the age of 18 to 60/65. Really? It's based on my experience. But maybe Tournesol has the figures to prove otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Robertshaw's megalomania is getting the better of him with all this stuff. If he goes through the motions of havinga 'national debate' he will be able to claim democracy has been done. He'll make his decisions very much regardless anyway. a bit like government consultations then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc.fixit Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Anyone know how these things are undertaken in Scandinavia? Logically you see value in combining state pensions, benefits & taxation so that everyone achieves a certain minimum standard of living, and only pays tax on earnings above that don't know exact figures yet but no 1 son lives on Denmark and raves about how good the social support is, pensions, medical care and education etc...............but in the next breath admits that he pays over 50% tax along with most employees to support this..........cars have over 100% purchase tax on them I believe. I will report if he gets back with accurate figures. actually just discovered the car sales tax is 180% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 What really annoys me is the way government throw the whole thing back in the faces of those who have elected them down the years! Who determines NI contributions, government pensions, expenditure on health, social security, income tax rates, social housing rents etc etc? The Isle of Man Government, that is who! Yet suddenly and after years of sitting on their hands, they expect everyone to roll over and accept that the retirement you planned is not going to happen because successive governments have made a total horlicks of things and feathered their own nests while you have been working your socks off! Up the workers...right up 'em! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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