P.K. Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 (edited) Duplicate Edited April 15 by P.K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 1 hour ago, HeliX said: Did you ask that question of Palestinians in the late 40s? What an appallingly facile remark which is unfortunately becoming ever more typical. Had the Arab nations rallied round to try and consolidate a Palestinian state on partition things may well have turned out differently. But instead they concentrated on the destruction of Israel and It's people. Fail. Which is why we now have refugee camps like Gaza the sole purpose of which seems to be to live off handouts and to keep the hatred of Israel festering away down through the generations. Well done the Arab nations not... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 2 hours ago, HeliX said: Did you ask that question of Palestinians in the late 40s? When there was just a few thousand of them? Strange that Gaza grew from small beginnings to c.2m if it's so bad to live there, particularly since 2005 when Israel handed it over completely? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 2 hours ago, Max Power said: When there was just a few thousand of them? Strange that Gaza grew from small beginnings to c.2m if it's so bad to live there, particularly since 2005 when Israel handed it over completely? There were 1.2million Muslims in Palestine in 1947. The reason Gazas population grows the way it does is because Israel keeps displacing people to there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 10 hours ago, HeliX said: There's no exemption in international law for striking the sovreign territory of another nation because you believe some of the people you will hit had "something to do" with another incident. International law is very clear. If you face a clear and present danger from the plans and orders an enemy is sending from a place then you can take action against the people in that place to stop them. Hezbollah is armed and coordinated by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard's Quds Force. They have fired 1000s of rockets into Northern Israel since October 7th causing the evacuation of over 100,000 Israelis. It is entirely within Israel's right to self-defence to take out the people arming, planning an coordinating those attacks. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 22 minutes ago, Chinahand said: International law is very clear. If you face a clear and present danger from the plans and orders an enemy is sending from a place then you can take action against the people in that place to stop them. Hezbollah is armed and coordinated by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard's Quds Force. They have fired 1000s of rockets into Northern Israel since October 7th causing the evacuation of over 100,000 Israelis. It is entirely within Israel's right to self-defence to take out the people arming, planning an coordinating those attacks. The IDF is armed and co-ordinated by the US. They have fired two nuclear bombs worth of explosive material into Gaza, causing the deaths of 30,000 people. It is entirely within Gaza's right to self-defense to take out the people arming, planning and co-ordinating those attacks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 7 hours ago, HeliX said: The IDF is armed and co-ordinated by the US. They have fired two nuclear bombs worth of explosive material into Gaza, causing the deaths of 30,000 people. It is entirely within Gaza's right to self-defense to take out the people arming, planning and co-ordinating those attacks... Ever more facile nonsense... Palestinians have been firing rockets into Israel since 2004 ffs! The Grad rockets they use have a 20kg warhead. Not exactly "fireworks" now are they? I suspect Israel now regrets the development of "Iron Dome" and instead should have retaliated using their counter battery capability. Because firing rockets at Israel has now become the no-risk norm. You need a serious reality check... Incidentally how is your "single state" solution coming along ie are Hezbollah invited to join in...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 8 hours ago, Chinahand said: International law is very clear. If you face a clear and present danger from the plans and orders an enemy is sending from a place then you can take action against the people in that place to stop them. Hezbollah is armed and coordinated by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard's Quds Force. They have fired 1000s of rockets into Northern Israel since October 7th causing the evacuation of over 100,000 Israelis. It is entirely within Israel's right to self-defence to take out the people arming, planning an coordinating those attacks. General Qasem Soleimani assassinated by the US in 2020 was involved in the "Quds force" operations and those taken out by the recent IDF strike in Syria likewise. The message "don't foment terrorism against Israel" just couldn't be clearer but unfortunately It's still not clear enough for the likes of @HeliX to grasp... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 2 hours ago, P.K. said: Ever more facile nonsense... Palestinians have been firing rockets into Israel since 2004 ffs! The Grad rockets they use have a 20kg warhead. Not exactly "fireworks" now are they? I suspect Israel now regrets the development of "Iron Dome" and instead should have retaliated using their counter battery capability. Because firing rockets at Israel has now become the no-risk norm. You need a serious reality check... Incidentally how is your "single state" solution coming along ie are Hezbollah invited to join in...? They are fireworks. Hence the near zero damage from them in several decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 9 minutes ago, HeliX said: They are fireworks. Hence the near zero damage from them in several decades. So according to you a Grad rocket with a 20kg is a "firework" that has caused zero casualties. Wrong on both counts. You really are losing touch with reality... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 @P.K. do you genuinely believe that the Israeli Government has done nothing worthy of criticism in its response to the terrible attack on the 7th October? Even Israel's allies have been calling for restraint both prior to and after the missile and drone attack by Iran. I cannot help but wonder what happened to the aim of rescuing the hostages that were taken on the 7th October. I suspect that they will all have been killed either by Hamas or by the Israeli attacks unless they were somehow evacuated out of Gaza by Hamas. Trying to unpick any of this is a nightmare and unfortunately is the consequence of the decision in the 1940's to gift the Jewish people a new state in an area that people were already living. In the end I don't think it would have mattered where the new state of Israel was created as gifting a country/state where people were already living to another group of people is always going to cause an issue. Look what happened when chunks of land in Northern Ireland were taken from the existing Catholic population and gifted to Presbyterian Scots. How long did it take to resolve that one? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 29 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: @P.K. do you genuinely believe that the Israeli Government has done nothing worthy of criticism in its response to the terrible attack on the 7th October? Even Israel's allies have been calling for restraint both prior to and after the missile and drone attack by Iran. I cannot help but wonder what happened to the aim of rescuing the hostages that were taken on the 7th October. I suspect that they will all have been killed either by Hamas or by the Israeli attacks unless they were somehow evacuated out of Gaza by Hamas. Trying to unpick any of this is a nightmare and unfortunately is the consequence of the decision in the 1940's to gift the Jewish people a new state in an area that people were already living. In the end I don't think it would have mattered where the new state of Israel was created as gifting a country/state where people were already living to another group of people is always going to cause an issue. Look what happened when chunks of land in Northern Ireland were taken from the existing Catholic population and gifted to Presbyterian Scots. How long did it take to resolve that one? Why should Israel show restraint ? Why only Israel ? What about the states who are lobbing the rockets and constantly attacking Israel ? Shouldn't they show restraint ? The Arabs didn't 'own' the area of Palestine. The clue's in their name. They're Arabs and not native to the region like the Jews who lived there thousands of years ago. The Arab empire colonised it during the Moslem conquests of the Middle-East around CE600. If you're going to quote it then get the history right. It's no use raising the Irish question either. There's hardly a country on earth that 's not been settled and resettled many times over thousands of years, including the IOM. Look at Europe over just the last century or so. Ireland's not unique by any stretch. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 1 hour ago, P.K. said: So according to you a Grad rocket with a 20kg is a "firework" that has caused zero casualties. Wrong on both counts. You really are losing touch with reality... "Near zero". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 17 minutes ago, Shake me up Judy said: Why should Israel show restraint ? Why only Israel ? What about the states who are lobbing the rockets and constantly attacking Israel ? Shouldn't they show restraint ? Israel struck Iranian sovreign territory. Iran's response was to wait to see if the UN Security Council would do anything meaningful, but a resolution was voted down by UK, France and Germany. Iran then announced they would strike Israel, told Israel, the US and the neighbouring countries exactly what they were going to strike, and when, and with what. They launched a strike that fit those parameters, and that they knew would be defeated by Israel's missile defense systems, and then declared that they considered the matter closed. That was restraint. If the terrorist state of Iran is showing better restraint than you, you are being a colossal bellend. Not that Netanyahu or his dwindling supporters have any interest in being reasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 28 minutes ago, HeliX said: "Near zero". What a relief that must be for the killed and injured... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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