HeliX Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 (edited) 8 minutes ago, P.K. said: The "Iron Dome" system is very effective. But now everyone knows it can be overwhelmed... Theodore Postol, expert on anti-missile technology at MIT, estimated the Iron Dome's efficacy in 2014 as 5%. So it deflected maybe 40 rockets. Israel claims it deflected 720. So taking Israel's number that's still 4280 rockets and 2000 mortar shells doing one building's worth of damage. They're big fireworks. Edited April 4 by HeliX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 4 minutes ago, HeliX said: Theodore Postol, expert on anti-missile technology at MIT, estimated the Iron Dome's efficacy in 2014 as 5%. So it deflected maybe 40 rockets. Israel claims it deflected 720. So taking Israel's number that's still 4280 rockets and 2000 mortar shells doing one building's worth of damage. They're big fireworks. FFS stop trying to play it down! There's nothing to be gained by doing that. The rockets are getting bigger and better all the time... Then there's the Hamas assault. Play that down if you will... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 Just now, P.K. said: FFS stop trying to play it down! There's nothing to be gained by doing that. The rockets are getting bigger and better all the time... Then there's the Hamas assault. Play that down if you will... I said multiple times they shouldn't be doing it, obviously. But my objection is that Israel uses phrasing like "5000 rockets" (without pointing out that they're shit and don't really cause any problem) as justification for murdering a bunch of people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 2 minutes ago, HeliX said: Theodore Postol, expert on anti-missile technology at MIT, estimated the Iron Dome's efficacy in 2014 as 5%. So it deflected maybe 40 rockets. Israel claims it deflected 720. So that's still 4280 rockets and 2000 mortar shells doing one building's worth of damage. They're big fireworks. So you wilfully ignored the technical details about the rockets being fired that I posted earlier. Fireworks? Every post you make is a concoction to absolve these terrorists of their actions now, and to downplay the barbarity of October 7th. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 Just now, quilp said: So you wilfully ignored the technical details about the rockets being fired that I posted earlier. Fireworks? Every post you make is a concoction to absolve these terrorists of their actions now, and to downplay the barbarity of October 7th. Do the technical details somehow change the facts of what actually happened when they were fired? During Operation Protective Edge Israel lost one house, and destroyed 18,000 homes in Gaza. In Operation Cast Lead Israel lost part of one house, and destroyed 6,300 homes in Gaza. The rockets are a near irrelevance. And I've said in almost every post about them that clearly, Hamas shouldn't be firing rockets. But them being used as a justification for the killing of outrageous numbers of civilians is a pisstake. Where did I downplay the barbarity of October 7th? Where did I try to absolve Hamas of their actions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 Page after page I’ve read the posts between Helix and PK ( and a few others ) each trying to claim the moral high ground for their position. Comparing the severity of one atrocity against the severity of another atrocity, methods and numbers of missiles used, etc etc There is no moral high ground in all of this. Both sides are guilty of the murder and wounding of innocent women, men and children in all of this. It just needs to stop. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 11 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: Page after page I’ve read the posts between Helix and PK ( and a few others ) each trying to claim the moral high ground for their position. Comparing the severity of one atrocity against the severity of another atrocity, methods and numbers of missiles used, etc etc There is no moral high ground in all of this. Both sides are guilty of the murder and wounding of innocent women, men and children in all of this. It just needs to stop. Your solution is...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 8 minutes ago, P.K. said: Your solution is...? Fair point. But that’s above my pay grade. And thats not a cop out. It’s for those that have the means and the wherewithal to come to a solution. But continual slaughter of the innocents is not the way to go. A ceasefire would be a start 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 If the IDF do not eradicate Hamas then they and the Iranians will claim a victory over Israel. This will simply lead to Hamas growing and having another go. Israel will respond. Rinse and repeat... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 Sorry to dissapoint most Christians in this thread, but Jebus is slightly darker than Robert Powell. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 7 hours ago, Albert Tatlock said: Sorry to dissapoint most Christians in this thread, but Jebus is slightly darker than Robert Powell. On a similar topic I heard someone yesterday (a British Jew) trying to explain that there is a difference between British Jews & Israeli Jews and stating that Israeli Jews are Arabic. Therefore this is a conflict between Arabic peoples. Whilst I have repeated that hear my thoughts were that it was a subject and discussion that I would not want to try and unpick nor an argument I would want to get involved in. That said both Jews and Palestinians claim modern day Israel as their homeland and in terms of religion Jesus is a part of both Judaism and Islam (and of course Christianity). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 Think about the worst people in British society, look at what they're saying, and then think about yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 (edited) Who cares what Suella Braverman says? She's all about massaging the right wing of the tories to position herself to replace Sunak. That's all what's going on in her essentially empty head in that article and everywhere else. Plus she's totally tin-eared... Back to the "Swords of Iron" conflict. The IDF report 13,000 murderous Hamas vermin have been killed by them. That's out of the Hamas alleged number of 32,000 fatalities. On the October 7th assault the IDF had at least 274 KIA with some MIA. Since their response in Gaza started on the 27th October they have lost 256 KIA and 1,549 WIA. https://www.gov.il/en/departments/news/swords-of-iron-idf-casualties#:~:text=The names of 600 IDF,have been killed in battle. Edited April 5 by P.K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 On 4/5/2024 at 8:04 AM, P.K. said: Who cares what Suella Braverman says? She's all about massaging the right wing of the tories to position herself to replace Sunak. That's all what's going on in her essentially empty head in that article and everywhere else. Plus she's totally tin-eared... Back to the "Swords of Iron" conflict. The IDF report 13,000 murderous Hamas vermin have been killed by them. That's out of the Hamas alleged number of 32,000 fatalities. On the October 7th assault the IDF had at least 274 KIA with some MIA. Since their response in Gaza started on the 27th October they have lost 256 KIA and 1,549 WIA. https://www.gov.il/en/departments/news/swords-of-iron-idf-casualties#:~:text=The names of 600 IDF,have been killed in battle. At the end of the day this will never stop until there is an acceptable political solution. Every ethnic/religious confrontation in history tells us that there are only two things that end them. Genocide so one side disappears or a political solution. The political solution normally appears when both sides realise they can’t win and that battering hell out of each other won’t get them anywhere. Of course it is possible that the politics/paranoia and numerical/fire power superiority of one of the sides means they never get there and genocide proceeds. Carrying on the IDF eradication of Hammas with consequent civilian collateral damage just pushes a political solution further away. It won’t solve the problem, it may give temporary relief, but long term it’ll create more resentment and Hammas or Provisional Hammas or New Hammas will (re)appear. Im not sure that the two state solution is the answer. Hiding people behind walls or barbed wire fences doesn’t make them go away or respect their rights. Neither does allowing one sides settlers to expropriate land from the other side. Nor does continued fighting, whether it’s Hammas terrorism or IDF excessive/disproportionate response. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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