Thomas Jefferson Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 (edited) While you're busy slagging off Israel.... A top UN official has quoted from a statement saying that ISIS wants all females aged between 11 and 46 in the Iraqi city of Mosul to undergo female genital mutilation. Now there are media outlets saying saying there are doubts about its authenticity and it could be a hoax, but the jury is still out. One thing is sure, Iraq wouldn't have been coloured green during Saddam Hussein's era. Not that he was a nice man or anything but the place has gone from the frying pan and into the fire since the Islamic extremists took over -- the exact same sort of extremists who are in power in Gaza (Hamas). I do wonder why there is always this selective outrage against Israel, though, while there are far worse human rights violations going on in the nations around her. Why aren't hordes of mindless left-wing British people going to Saudi Arabia to protest the killing of homosexualsl or to Sudan to protest the persecution of Christians? Why is it always Israel they go to and slag off? Edited July 24, 2014 by Thomas Jefferson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Why aren't hordes of mindless left-wing British people going to Saudi Arabia to protest the killing of homosexualsl or to Sudan to protest the persecution of Christians? Why is it always Israel they go to and slag off? Because for some reason they have a love-in going on with Islam, but never mind, they will learn. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thommo2010 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 If it's anything like Scott Pilgrim vs the world I will give it a miss. Rubbish film 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted July 25, 2014 Author Share Posted July 25, 2014 Weapons? So did the French. As for the survivor of the Warsaw ghetto, other than he claimed to be how do we KNOW he was what he claimed to be? After all, lying is not only permitted in Islam, and it is as far as I know the ONLY religion where such is the cases, it is in fact the advised course of action to be taken in some circumstances. If anyone doubts that then look up the words "taqiyya" and "kitman". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted July 25, 2014 Author Share Posted July 25, 2014 In reply to Erco who asks me if I've ever been to Israel. Yes. Many times, almost always to attend conventions or even just get together to discuss matters appertaining to churches. Holidays there are not inexpensive! During those visits I've stayed with Jewish people, Christian people, Russian Orthodox people (very fattening food there!) and on three occasions with Muslim families. Part of the way that we conduct business is to stay with ordinary people rather than in hotels. We get to know each other and our ways and beliefs so much better in that way. What I learned would fill a book, and as I age and pensions no longer buy what they once did, may well end up doing just that! So Erco, anything in particular you would like to ask? I'll do my best to keep any answer brief, also to avoid what so many people call "God Bothering" out of any replies as I have tried to do on this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Well is it a case of Israel being a pariah state as so much of the press is making out, or is it that the press reporting from the Gaza Strip are being skilfully managed by their Hamas handlers? In my opinion while the Hamas activists use their families as consumables and weapons of propaganda and have ramped up their ballistic missile attacks from the relatively trivial glorified fireworks that the Kassam home made things are to bought in long range and accurate weapons Israel had no option other than strike back and strike back HARD. The argument that the population of Gaza City have nowhere to go is rubbish. The Gaza Strip is mostly agricultural land and villages. Maybe Hamas are preventing some from leaving, certainly some don't want to leave as it is their way of taking part in the attacks against Israel, but what are you going to do if there's a guy with a gun aimed at you and your family who WILL fire unless you fire even if it means that the women who he's hiding behind stands a chance of being killed? There is one aspect of this terrible mess that does figure high in my opinions. Israel traded land for peace with the handing over of the Gaza Strip not to Egypt who wanted nothing to do with it but to the Palestinian tribes. And yet although they got the land Israel got no peace. Not even from day#1. That deal was never concluded by the Palestinians and so Israel should now take back the land and as long as they don't want to come to Europe allow any and all Palestinians to leave and go to wherever will take them. No doubt there will be alternative viewpoints about what is taking place but someone had to get the ball rolling. Spook, clearly a considered and well researched post. So much of our understanding of this conflict depends on the narrative we are listening to, and I personally tend towards the Palestinian narrative more than the Israeli one. Setting that aside, because I just don't think it's worth getting into a long polemic about who's version of history is the correct one, can I ask what your favoured solution for the Palestinians is? I think everybody surely accepts that there is a huge and legitimate grievance there: there was Palestinian state shared by Jews and Arabs, there is now only a Jewish state. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted July 25, 2014 Author Share Posted July 25, 2014 Guzzi, I wish you had not asked because my honest reply is one that I am really sorry to give. Putting to one side the justification that was used to grant to the Jewish nation a geographical homeland where their national home should be, in view of the way that the world has moved on and the new pressures that have come into play as a result of global changes I do not believe that Israel has a future in the Levant. Sometimes the cost of being in the right is just too high a price for so many others to have to pay. That does raise the question of where the Jewish nation should have as a designated homeland, and I firmly believe that they should, that is a question for much better minds than mine to address. I find it sick making to see how what was created in hope, what could have been even if only as the catalyst for the modernisation for a whole region bringing progress for tens of millions, is being destroyed by scum supported by scum. I believe that the scum will get what they want. The price will be huge, and what will they do when they have what they want? Turn it into a toilet just as they have done with the Gaza strip. Then they will turn on each other. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 there was Palestinian state shared by Jews and Arabs, there is now only a Jewish state. I do not believe that Israel has a future in the Levant. Interesting views. Surely though Israel does have a future if (BIG IF) a balance can be made so that there is a return to what guzzi describes? A country shared by the Jews and Arabs. There does not, however, appear to be any desire from Hamas to have that peace and the benefits it would bring to the region. I can see both sides of the argument here but when will those involved realise that a peace could bring prosperity to the region that is denied to so many because of the fighting. I also agree to some extent with TJ. This is also providing a useful distraction for Islamic extremists to tighten their control in other regions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzy Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Israel and my people have suffered antisemitism for centuries, do you want support the terrorists in Palestine who bombed US & UK??!! Coming here I thought I would never experience antisemitism until someone a local resident call Nidal AD said my people our Nazis on FB, some sort of dentist I think How dare he, what does the Jewish community say here??!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Trumps Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Wasn't it the Israelis who killed dozens of British troops in their bombing of the King David hotel? Anyway, the West is going to have to take on this ISIS lot or the whole planet will go to f**k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.C. Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Donald, no - the state of Israel hadn't been reestablished yet. Besides, the British were occupying their land and blocking Jews from escaping Nazi Europe to Palestine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 (edited) I'm afraid, Spook, that your solution is no solution at all. If you don't think Israel has a future in the Levant, but you also firmly believe that the Jews should have a designated homeland, then you require a territory where no-one currently lives but is nevertheless a hospitable environment, or you require a territory where the existing population is willing to create and be subsumed into a jewish homeland. Of course, niether is remotely possible. People have considered a single state solution down the decades, but of course that shares the land rather than providing a jewish state and thus fails as far as the Israelis are concerned. Given that, I can't see any reasonable solution other than a two state one. The reason why that has failed thus far is because Israel has failed to cede any true sovereignity or territorial integrity to the Palestinians. The West Bank is completely colonised with illegal Israeli settlements, and Gaza is essentially an open prison, with a naval blockade and closed borders. Both sides need to implement a two state solution with good faith, adhering to all UN resolutions. Edited July 25, 2014 by guzzi 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paswt Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Wasn't it the Israelis who killed dozens of British troops in their bombing of the King David hotel? Anyway, the West is going to have to take on this ISIS lot or the whole planet will go to f**k The sad fact is that despite folk saying "violence doesn't get you anywhere" it does get you "political power"and once you have that you can "arrest terrorists", rather than "taking hostages". Former terrorists , if successful then magically become "statesmen"………….in some folks eyes, but not mine. By their fruits ye shall know them D.C…….. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Trumps Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Donald, no - the state of Israel hadn't been reestablished yet. Besides, the British were occupying their land and blocking Jews from escaping Nazi Europe to Palestine. Well, I didn't want to say 'Zionists' It was after the second world war so not too much to do with escaping 'Nazi Europe' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted July 25, 2014 Author Share Posted July 25, 2014 Wasn't it the Israelis who killed dozens of British troops in their bombing of the King David hotel? That's what I thought but it isn't quite what happened. To start with Britain should not have been using a civilian resource as a military instalation, it was against the Geneva convention, and warnings were given which the British ignored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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