Israel vs. the rest of the world?

[ballaughbiker]

Tell you what is the problem Judy. Accepting what mighty Israel backed by the even mightier US (and UK to an extent) has been doing since the 60s at least and then expecting no reprisals. When they get reprisals they then focus on those alone as the some justification for turning up the heat even more. Its almost like they are looking for a final solution and considering their history, that is quite remarkable.

 

I can't go along with what Hamas is doing but Israel knew damn well that they would and are now just putting petrol on the fire.

 

a different picture will emerge

 

If you were living in Gaza, I reckon you'd see a different picture emerging too.

[woolley]

BBC has obviously made its mind up. Or is that to avoid causing "offence" at home and much unpleasantness on the streets of certain cities in Britain?

[Donald Trumps]

Don't think Israel is much backed by the UK - they did supply the Argies with weaponry & ammunition during the Falklands Conflict after all

 

Time their blockade of Gaza was lifted - a Jewish survivor of the Warsaw ghetto was on the radio confirming how inhuman it is

[Albert Tatlock]

Saw an interesting holiday video Monday, taken on a beach near Tel aviv by a mate...sirens and 2 rockets getting shot down.

[Donald Trumps]

Was it a holiday highlight?

 

Iron Dome is (apparently) working well at the moment, whereas it was being well slagged off a few months ago

 

Wonder what's changed...

[Erco]

 

Come on now TJ

 

ya shill

 

Own up....

If you care to look you will see that opening item was written by me.

 

If you have an alternative opinion or something to add or contradict in what I wrote then at least do so in a sensible way. This is a difficult subject at best, it involves strong emotions on both sides of the events taking place based on how people perceived the fundamentals involved.

 

I can see two sides to this whole mess depending on how far back one starts. IMO a good starting place isn't biblical, it's around the mid nineteenth century.

 

Start from there, research the Levant at that time, look at how it changed very the time, and a whole lot more besides and an interesting picture emerges, especially during and as a consequence of the actions of the British and even more especially during the Mandate years.

 

There is a very great deal involved in this mess than there appears to be.

 

They say a picture paints a thousand words

 

Spook can I ask.... you being all informed and that... ever been to that neck of the woods??

Edited July 24, 2014 by Erco

[alibaba]

I miss Rog.

 

Free Palestine

 

Edited July 24, 2014 by alibaba

[quilp]

This whole debacle is islamic jihad. Scripturally-inspired hatred of the Jews going back to the inception of islam and the desert cult started by mohammed. Hamas don't want peace, no matter what concessions are offered by Israel and the frightened Palestinian people are pawns in Hamas' agenda. Rocket's are fired from the vicinity of hospitals, schools and make-shift bomb-shelters (where they have knowingly been herded by hamas fighters), deliberately to attract the Israeli response and the dreadful collateral damage on civilians. A deadly PR exercise using Human-shields; children, women, old men, all sacrificed by the jihadis.

 

Too many on here, and elsewhere, have fallen for the spin provided by our media. It is this western version of taqiya that throws a negative light on Israel.

 

Let's not forget the suicide attacks, going back many years, in Israel itself; the bus bombs, the coffee-shops, cafes and restaurants, et al. Israel knows full well that other islamic states conduct jihad against them by proxy; Iran and the dreadful house of saud, financing and facillitating the supply of weaponry to hamas and previously hezbollah.

 

Israel should show no quarter and get on with the job in hand....

[Tarne]

They say a picture paints a thousand words

 

Spook can I ask.... you being all informed and that... ever been to that neck of the woods??

 

Are you an idiot? Do you know why they, and surrounding areas lost a lot of land? I'll give you a clue. It's not from coexisting peacefully with Israel.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6_day_war

 

Also, the map you posted is wrong (Golan Heights etc)

 

 

[D.C.]

 

That deal was never concluded by the Palestinians and so Israel should now take back the land and as long as they don't want to come to Europe allow any and all Palestinians to leave and go to wherever will take them.

 

 

Or the UN could take back the land they gave the Jews, give it back to the Palastinians and ship all the Jews to the USA.

 

Celt,

 

The land was not given to "the Jews" by the UN. The Jews are the indigeneous people of that land - as confirmed by the archaeological and historical record going back 4,000 years - and the only reason lots of Jews have lived in places like Europe, North America, Ethiopia, and as far east as India and China, is because they were violently expelled from their homeland on multiple occasions: 722 BC by the Assyrians; 586 BC by the Babylonians; and in 150 AD by the Romans. It was the Romans who, after laying waste to the region of Judea, went and renamed it "Palaestina" as part of a strategy to reduce the Jewish identification with the area, as it was a hotbed of Jewish insurrections against the Roman Empire.

 

Who are these "Palestinians" to whom you would "give back" the land? They are the descendants of Arabs who conquered the region during the medieval period and economic migrations from Arab countries who flocked there for work during the late 19th and early 20th century when the early Aliyah movement was underway and the early Zionists were turning what had become a backwater desert area into a bustling agricultural and economic centre. Throughout the last 2,000 years, even after the expulsions, there has always been a continuous Jewish presence in the land, especially in Jerusalem which was the centre of the Jewish civilisation. The city of Jerusalem was built by Jews under the rulership of Jewish monarchs like King David and King Solomon. Not only was there always a Jewish presence in the region, especially around Jerusalem, but there have always been exoduses of Jews back to the land because of persecution in Europe. In 1492, when Columbus was sailing to America, the Jews were violently expelled from Spain during the Inquisition, with many returning to their homeland in Judea, otherwise called Palestine.

 

This word "Palestine" is derived from the "Philistines", an ancient people who have no relationship whatsoever with the current people who call themselves "Palestinian". Actually, for centuries, the term "Palestinian" was used to refer to both Jewish and Arab inhabitants of the area. Arab nationalism didn't take off untill the collapse of the Ottoman Empire after the First World War. Until that time there was little or no notion of "Syrian Arab", "Lebanese Arab", "Iraqi Arab", or even "Turkish" - they were all subjects of the Ottoman Empire. At no point in history since the founding of Islam did the Arabs have national identities (beyond Arab); they had only their local tribal affiliations and a broader identification with a caliphate or ummah (Islamic nation or empire), the last being the Ottoman Caliphate. There was no national Arab group called "Palestinians". It is a post-1948 invention. Prior to the re-establishment of Israel, the term was used only in a regional sense and applied equally to both Jews and Arabs alike. These "Palestinians" are Arabs, they are not indigeneous to that region. Arabs come from the Arabia, as Jews come from Judea.

 

Also, back in 1948, there were more Sephardic and Mizrahi Jews expelled from Arab states and who fled to Israel than the number of Arabs who fled the area of Israel. Something like happened with India and Pakistan would have been the best outcome, but the surrounding nations instead banded together and tried to wipe Israel off the map and then refused to integrate the Arab refugees into their own borders, whereas Israel had integrated the Jewish refugees (from Arab countries) into its borders - and so we are left with a deliberately perpetuated refugee crisis which is entirely the fault of the Arab nations yet is blamed on Israel. I would also like to point out that Mizrahi and Sephardic Jews (from Middle Eastern and Arab areas) make up 50.2% of the Jewish population of Israel, compared to 47.5% who are Ashkenazi Jews (European) and that is based on 2009 statistics, meaning the Sephardic and Mizrahi Jews are a majority even after the mass influx of Jews from the former Soviet Union in the 1990s, which means throughout Israel's history, its Jewish population has been majority Middle Eastern, which refutes the oft-repeated claim that Israel's Jews are Europeans who've stolen and colonised land from Middle Eastern people. The facts simply do not support such outrageous distortions of reality.

 

Why would the Jews be sent to the USA? They are not indigeneous to the USA. They are from Judea.

 

Your comments are ill-informed and offensive.

 

D.C.

[ballaughbiker]

Whilst quilp makes some valid points are you really asking us to believe that Israelis want to co-exit peacefully with Palestinians? They just want them.....gone!

[mojomonkey]

Doesn't it all come down to yet another monumental cluster fuck stemming from religion?

[spook]

In part, but not totally. The British government from the start of the 20th. century have a very great deal to answer for.

[D.C.]

Whilst quilp makes some valid points are you really asking us to believe that Israelis want to co-exit peacefully with Palestinians? They just want them.....gone!

 

If Hamas were really interested in peace, they would amend their charter which calls for the annihilation of the state of Israel, they would stop murdering Jews, they would not have expelled Fatah from Gaza, and they wouldn't fire rockets into the state of Israel. Israel is going out of its way to minimise casualties during a very necessary operation to stop rockets being fired on their civilians. People who criticise Israel for doing that are hypocrites, as we all know they would not tolerate rockets being fired on their own houses.

 

Doesn't it all come down to yet another monumental cluster fuck stemming from religion?

 

If you remove religion from the equation, Jews still have a historical and cultural connection to the land. All the archaeological sites are Jewish. A very large percentage of Jews are secular or liberal. On the other hand, I do think the hatred of Israel by the Arabs stems from religious bigotry against Jews. Building the Al Aqsa Mosque and the Dome of the Rock on top of the Jewish Temple Mount, with the Jews being a subject people (dhimmis), was supposed to be a sign of the supremacy of Islam over Judaism. It must really annoy them to see the Jews doing well in their own land again.

 

[quilp]

Whilst quilp makes some valid points are you really asking us to believe that Israelis want to co-exit peacefully with Palestinians? They just want them.....gone!

 

 

Thing is, maybe there's a meme in the Arab world that you're not aware of. It's not something generally broadcast by our dhimmified media, maybe, as woolley suggests, for fear of causing offence to certain factions in certain towns and cities across the UK. One can only speculate.

 

Here's 3 examples of the kind of islamic supremacism they live in fear of, every day....

 

http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/4366.htm

 

and

 

http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/4361.htm

 

and

 

http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/4365.htm

 

That's Iran, Kuwait and Qatar. On that website you'll find all sorts of deadly rhetoric being spouted in the mosques of all the countries which surround Israel. It's an ancient anti-semitism used to fire the guilible and un-educated masses.

 

The Israeli's have been up against it for decades, remember the 6-day war? When a coalition of Arab states surrounding Israel, decided on a surprise (and cowardly) attack to rid the area of the Jew. Except that little old Israel got wind of it and against far superior numbers, knocked 7 bells out of them. The Egyptian air force never got off the ground!

 

That the Israeli's just want the Palestinians gone is not how it seems. Many Palestinians and the Israeli economy benefit from a fragile co-existence because of the labour market and other jobs. Were there peace, the quality of life of many Palestinians would improve; healthcare, jobs, etc.

 

Here you go, what's the difference between Hamas, ISIS and Al-qaeda?

 

Nowt. Hamas have been able to rule whereas the other two aren't quite there, yet.

 

If you're really interested in this tale of woe, don't watch any of our broadcasters, look a bit deeper, and further back, for the real, bigger picture. Very easy to sit back in your armchair after a substantial supper and be told what to think. The diminutive Alistair Stewart, on ITV tonight was a prime example of spinning the victimhood, nearly made me puke!