John Wright Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 8 minutes ago, Manximus Aururaneus said: How would you know? The IOM has never been prepared to join the EU and accept its rules for doing so, neither have you. More wrong assumptions. The IoM half joined in 1973. I was at university and voted in 1975. My passport allows me to settle and work throughout the EU. As IoM is in the U.K. IoM customs union, and inside the EU common external tariff area, and protocol 3 allows for free trade in goods ( including agriculture - after initial derogations ) the IoM has applied all its trade rules. Free movement of persons applies, subject to work permits in one direction and manxman status in the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manximus Aururaneus Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, John Wright said: More wrong assumptions. The IoM half joined in 1973. I was at university and voted in 1975. My passport allows me to settle and work throughout the EU. As IoM is in the U.K. IoM customs union, and inside the EU common external tariff area, and protocol 3 allows for free trade in goods ( including agriculture - after initial derogations ) the IoM has applied all its trade rules. Free movement of persons applies, subject to work permits in one direction and manxman status in the other. How much EU tax contribution have you (not other half) paid since 1973? (Not indirect VAT etc, Direct EU annual contributions to EU budget - I am happy to use EU in house figures to prove IOM contributions to EU annual budget). Which EU rules ( employment, discrimination etc. etc. ) have you operated within since 1973 in your Douglas will writing service? Since 1973, has your legal practice operated strictly IAW with; a) IOM law B) EU law ? Since 1973 has IOM law courts operated under; a) Eu law b) IOM law ? Edited October 30, 2019 by Manximus Aururaneus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manximus Aururaneus Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, John Wright said: More wrong assumptions. The IoM half joined in 1973. I was at university and voted in 1975. My passport allows me to settle and work throughout the EU. As IoM is in the U.K. IoM customs union, and inside the EU common external tariff area, and protocol 3 allows for free trade in goods ( including agriculture - after initial derogations ) the IoM has applied all its trade rules. Free movement of persons applies, subject to work permits in one direction and manxman status in the other. Really? IOM is in U.K. (Your full stops). Edited October 30, 2019 by Manximus Aururaneus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manximus Aururaneus Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 12 minutes ago, John Wright said: More wrong assumptions. The IoM half joined in 1973. I was at university and voted in 1975. My passport allows me to settle and work throughout the EU. As IoM is in the U.K. IoM customs union, and inside the EU common external tariff area, and protocol 3 allows for free trade in goods ( including agriculture - after initial derogations ) the IoM has applied all its trade rules. Free movement of persons applies, subject to work permits in one direction and manxman status in the other. So free movement does not apply then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manximus Aururaneus Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) Isle of Man adheres to rules on Government (State) aid to particular sectors does it? Edited October 30, 2019 by Manximus Aururaneus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, Manximus Aururaneus said: So free movement does not apply then? Yes, and no. Any European can come and live here and vice versa. Remember IoM has no border or nationality controls of its own between U.K. and IoM. Any EU citizen who is in U.K. or Ireland can come here without check, let, or hindrance. To work they must get a work permit, and so must the English and Irish, but they’re automatic nowadays for most employments and the number of manx who have the stamp in their passport disentitling them to work throughout Europe is very few. 2,000-3,000 out of 85,000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 15 minutes ago, Manximus Aururaneus said: Really? IOM is in U.K. (Your full stops). Learn to Read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manximus Aururaneus Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, John Wright said: Yes, and no. Any European can come and live here and vice versa. Remember IoM has no border or nationality controls of its own between U.K. and IoM. Any EU citizen who is in U.K. or Ireland can come here without check, let, or hindrance. To work they must get a work permit, and so must the English and Irish, but they’re automatic nowadays for most employments and the number of manx who have the stamp in their passport disentitling them to work throughout Europe is very few. 2,000-3,000 out of 85,000. Yes, I know all that. It's either 'free movement' or it is subject to conditions (i.e. NOT 'Free'). Conditions mean that it is 'Conditional movement' not 'Free movement' Yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manximus Aururaneus Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) 18 minutes ago, John Wright said: Learn to Read. I can read lawyer twists on phrase all day long Fella. Reading it is the easy bit, trying to find some truth within it is the hard bit. I'll leave it to others to judge the reputation of lawyers. The House of Commons is full of them......... Edited October 30, 2019 by Manximus Aururaneus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manximus Aururaneus Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Birching, Deemsters, No outside Lawyers unless permission granted - all EU compliant mmmmmmmm................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freggyragh Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 55 minutes ago, Manximus Aururaneus said: I can read lawyer twists on phrase all day long Fella. Reading it is the easy bit, trying to find some truth within it is the hard bit. I'll leave it to others to judge the reputation of lawyers. The House of Commons is full of them......... Not anymore. Mostly journalists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 7 hours ago, Manximus Aururaneus said: Birching, Deemsters, No outside Lawyers unless permission granted - all EU compliant mmmmmmmm................. In what way is the Manx birching issue related to the EU...And do not mention the European Court of Human Rights. Deemsters are Crown appointments under the auspices of the Lt Governor they are advertising at the moment see link/ Off Island can apply. https://www.gov.im/crownappointments The Island's own laws regulate who gets to work as an Advocate with right of audience and you can import a lawyer with right of audience if you get what used to be the Lt Governor's licence but which I think may now be the 1st Deemster's licence. I recall a London Barrister Andrew Nichol QC representing a local applicant in IOM High Court and it was on Manx legal aid. I think the applicant was a local soft fruit grower name of Bandari or similar. I think he won and it is in Manx Law Reports. The IOM Court of Appeal judge must be an off-Island QC apparently see link https://www.gov.im/news/2017/oct/10/judge-of-appeal-sworn-in/ England and Wales lawyers practise in the IOM but may not all have right of audience. The Lt Governor appoints and empowers Manx Advocates by warrant. This is how I recall it but there may have been changes. I cannot see EU influence in it if that is what you imply... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 8 hours ago, John Wright said: More wrong assumptions. The IoM half joined in 1973. I was at university and voted in 1975. My passport allows me to settle and work throughout the EU. As IoM is in the U.K. IoM customs union, and inside the EU common external tariff area, and protocol 3 allows for free trade in goods ( including agriculture - after initial derogations ) the IoM has applied all its trade rules. Free movement of persons applies, subject to work permits in one direction and manxman status in the other. My expired so called Manx or British Islands passport issued locally 2008 has European Union stamped on the front. Do they still proclaim EU on the front..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 8 hours ago, Manximus Aururaneus said: How much EU tax contribution have you (not other half) paid since 1973? (Not indirect VAT etc, Direct EU annual contributions to EU budget - I am happy to use EU in house figures to prove IOM contributions to EU annual budget). Which EU rules ( employment, discrimination etc. etc. ) have you operated within since 1973 in your Douglas will writing service? Since 1973, has your legal practice operated strictly IAW with; a) IOM law B) EU law ? Since 1973 has IOM law courts operated under; a) Eu law b) IOM law ? I would very much like you to post evidence that the IOM pays contributions into the EU budget...And likewise that it receives some input or benefit in return. Also I have never received a tax demand from the EU nor its predecessor whether in UK or IOM. How much has the IOM paid the EU since 1994 out of interest.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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