Promenade - Megathread

[TheTeapot]

3 hours ago, Numbnuts said:

I've heard some unbelievable stories about Jeff Robinson . 

I heard he likes weak, sugared and very milky tea. Appalling.

[Two-lane]

2 hours ago, yootalkin2me said:

.and to be honest the system in place can often work against you despite your best efforts.

Who put "the system" in place? Is this a result of human action, or something that simply exists?

[NoTailT]

DOI having to cover the cost of Claremont's xmas lights being put up because it's having to be done out of hours. Also having to temporarily tarmac the road at DOI expense for the hoist to get in.

[yootalkin2me]

1 hour ago, Two-lane said:

Who put "the system" in place? Is this a result of human action, or something that simply exists?

God...Be'elzeebub...aliens...humans...who knows?

[hissingsid]

It was always going to be a mighty job because of god knows what the Victorians buried below the surface when they constructed the promenade.  .Gas mains have always been a problem, no one knew exactly where the old ones were, remember Howard Street years ago when there was a very large hole on the pavement for about two years with a do not smoke sign, the they could not locate the old gas pipes.   The only thing the Minister has got wrong is being ambitious with the completion date a seasoned politician would never have committed themselves in this way.   Tim Baker came to the party after the food had been served it has been a disaster from the start.   Three construction firms with little cooperation .  changed plans, the saga continues and will do for a long time yet.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Andy Onchan]

22 hours ago, Numbnuts said:

..........and they still cant give a final date for finish of prom and they are already going to be alot more than 6 months and likely to be over 1 year late by the time its finished . 

And substantially over budget.

Speaking of budgets......... does anyone know if there is a publicly available QS bill of materials available and project costings for inspection for the various stages of the project? If not I might be submitting a FOI.

I'm told that the cluster-feck that is the bottom of Broadway was/has been known before the project began. In which case you have to wonder why DOI didn't arrange for test pits/holes to be dug to determine the extent of the problem before digging up the whole prom. Similarly, the bottom of Church Rd Marina.

[Andy Onchan]

20 hours ago, NoTailT said:

DOI having to cover the cost of Claremont's xmas lights being put up because it's having to be done out of hours. Also having to temporarily tarmac the road at DOI expense for the hoist to get in.

You mean taxpayer's expense.... the DOI only exists courtesy of the taxpayer..... unfortunately. 

[quilp]

43 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

Speaking of budgets......... does anyone know if there is a publicly available QS bill of materials available and project costings for inspection for the various stages of the project? If not I might be submitting a FOI.

Pound to a penny the response to your request would be "commercially confidential." There is no accountability, little oversight and a very fluid budget that every taxpayer is expected to contribute without question...

[Shake me up Judy]

Baker sounded beaten this week in the face of Robertshaw's questions; like a guilty schoolboy in the headmaster's office, who knows the game is up. He thought he could get a grip of the DOI but he over-estimated his power and ability to influence anything.

[Numbnuts]

1 hour ago, Andy Onchan said:

And substantially over budget.

Speaking of budgets......... does anyone know if there is a publicly available QS bill of materials available and project costings for inspection for the various stages of the project? If not I might be submitting a FOI.

I'm told that the cluster-feck that is the bottom of Broadway was/has been known before the project began. In which case you have to wonder why DOI didn't arrange for test pits/holes to be dug to determine the extent of the problem before digging up the whole prom. Similarly, the bottom of Church Rd Marina.

Have it on good authority , a ex member of Tynwald , that the costings for the contract had a very high figure for unknowns in it . Black is already on record saying they will need more for the second stage they wete going to return to next September but thats in doubt now. They have also had a figure ,approx 750,000 k already granted by Tynwald a few months ago .

[Roger Mexico]

2 hours ago, Andy Onchan said:

I'm told that the cluster-feck that is the bottom of Broadway was/has been known before the project began. In which case you have to wonder why DOI didn't arrange for test pits/holes to be dug to determine the extent of the problem before digging up the whole prom. Similarly, the bottom of Church Rd Marina.

Not only were they known about but they ought to have had a good idea what was there.  They've spent the last few years pretending to be shocked at the concept that there are services under the roads, as if this was some unknown archaeological site that had never been investigated before.  But much of the services involved, especially drainage and sewerage and gas, have only been laid in the last two decades or so.  Even any Victorian etc leftovers should have been documented during those works - and even the Victorians and later generations of public servants were often better at producing plans that they imply. 

[kevster]

36 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

Not only were they known about but they ought to have had a good idea what was there.  They've spent the last few years pretending to be shocked at the concept that there are services under the roads, as if this was some unknown archaeological site that had never been investigated before.  But much of the services involved, especially drainage and sewerage and gas, have only been laid in the last two decades or so.  Even any Victorian etc leftovers should have been documented during those works - and even the Victorians and later generations of public servants were often better at producing plans that they imply. 

What the plans say, and what is actually there don’t always agree. 
 

When I lived in London, there was a vacant corner plot at the end of our street. A builder acquired this plot and started work on it. A check on the plan’s held by the relevant utilities showed nothing there. Unfortunately, the mini JCB he used to start digging found that a main electric cable cut across this corner instead of following the road as shown on the plans. 

[Roger Mexico]

4 hours ago, kevster said:

What the plans say, and what is actually there don’t always agree. 
 

When I lived in London, there was a vacant corner plot at the end of our street. A builder acquired this plot and started work on it. A check on the plan’s held by the relevant utilities showed nothing there. Unfortunately, the mini JCB he used to start digging found that a main electric cable cut across this corner instead of following the road as shown on the plans. 

Oh quite, but the DoI ought to have considerable advantages here  The previous works can only have been done by themselves[1] or under their supervision or by a small number of other organisations they should be working closely with.  If plans don't match what is in the ground, either they haven't supervised properly or they haven't recorded changes that had to be made.  And they haven't use to opportunity, when work is being done to check on existing infrastructure against plan.

 

[1]  While the name of Departments may have changed there's continuity otherwise - it's not like when there's been local government reorganisation.

[NoTail]

In the interest of sanity and saving a fortune could we not just stop all the nonsense and tarmac over everything.  Could be done by Thursday. 

[Anyone]

Not if you put the DOI in charge of that it won’t.