Steam-Packet New Ferry survey

[foxdaleliberationfront]

22 minutes ago, Derek Flint said:

The Ben isn’t a good sea boat, at least where passengers are involved.The only other of that design was sold to the NZ Navy and it proved unworkable even in a military application. 

 

There's one other down in the Channel Islands - https://brittany-seas-ships.jimdo.com/condor-ferries/condor-ferries-fleet/commodore-clipper/

Doesn't seem to be very popular. 

 

[Non-Believer]

Bring back the Mona's Isle.... 

[John Wright]

1 hour ago, MrPB said:

Any town named after a skiddy ring is unlikely to feature in anyones go to list. 

Bloody anglicisation of Irish names. Rinn an Scidígh = the headland of shadows. Or gob yn scaaghey in manx

[Andy Onchan]

1 hour ago, Derek Flint said:

First started sailing here in the 1990’s so it was that or the Lady Of Mann. The latter was like a converted fishing ketch. I had some horrendous crossings on it. The King Orry design was a lot easier to get comfortable on and ride out big weather. It was trying to put all the eggs in one design basket for freight and pax where things started to go awry.

The Ben isn’t a good sea boat, at least where passengers are involved.The only other of that design was sold to the NZ Navy and it proved unworkable even in a military application. 

Hopefully, today’s computer aided design and performance modelling will result in something fit for the route, and also be able to identify the optimum place to put pax  to ensure their comfort. That front lounge was like a fairground ride when the boat was pitching in a high sea. Almost a zero gravity experience on the drop into the trough!

And the whole thing needs to be much better value. Though how that is going to happen now it is in Govt ownership I don’t know. That £40m being spent with Peel Holdings in Liverpool would have been much better used in getting a better boat, or having a subsidized fare programme to try and generate some traffic.

 

 

 

I had more confidence in The Lady than the Orry in making it across that bit of water.

[Amadeus]

17 hours ago, doc.fixit said:

loading staff who are actually friendly and aware that it is difficult to interpret vague hand signals and snapped commands in a noisy environment.

Ah, but at least in Heysham they have hiviz wearing security staff who will rudely bark at you if you dare to take a picture of anything while boarding. So observed last time I was there (wasn't me taking pictures).

[Amadeus]

2 hours ago, Barrie Stevens said:

Do not use real brass fittings and trim around doors, handles, windows and other places. I had the job of cleaning all the brass trim around the ship and which most people would probably not have noticed. It took maybe three hours possibly more going round with rags and Dura Glit/Brasso. Even if it could be done quicker it would be charged at 3 hours a day each end.

This was done twice a day in Douglas and in Heysham. So call it 6 six hours a day at £11 an hour 20 years ago let alone now and you think in terms of £66 a day and it can look like £24 K per annum just for that. Best trim with stainless steel which like you see in lifts is usually rubbed down with Johnson's baby oil which works a treat.

It is possible that the brass trim was removed from the Ben during subsequent refits because people like me pointed out the cost of fiddling about with Brasso etc and it is messy, needs cleaning up but Dura Glit is deemed costly by contractors.

Also, can we have deck or quay level entry along a brow and not have to climb a virtual fire escape to get to the passenger level? 

I used to take great pride in polishing the brass on the Lady of Mann. Makes such a difference when it's all sparkling and nice, and it simply completes the proper boat look.

[woolley]

17 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

I had more confidence in The Lady than the Orry in making it across that bit of water.

I sailed on the Orry in some mighty seas. Never felt in jeopardy.

[Amadeus]

Anyway, for the new boats:

Maybe get a sideloader again? I loved the Lady. Such a nice ship to sail on. A modern version of it could be good and wouldn't rely on link spans. Sadly never got to sail on the King Orry.

The Ben is horribly slow and wasn't sitting deep enough in the water (remember the trailers filled with concrete?). Wasn't she second choice / snapped up cheaper or something? Screw the fast ferry crap and get a decently fast conventional ferry with better cabins, fast wifi and a proper loyalty program.

[Barrie Stevens]

16 minutes ago, Amadeus said:

I used to take great pride in polishing the brass on the Lady of Mann. Makes such a difference when it's all sparkling and nice, and it simply completes the proper boat look.

Aye but the Lady of Mann was a proper ship built for the trade in days of old. When refitted it was made to look a bit like a small liner. Brass can look good on ship shaped ships. But the Ben on the inside has all the charm of 1970s Inter City British Rail rolling stock. Brass is out of place and incurs costs when you have to pay outside contractors to clean it as was my job. If you get the crew to clean it then the accounts look different. I was pointing out the extra cost. Stainless steel and duralumin best for modern trim. Even anodised brass fades and flakes. 

[John Wright]

2 hours ago, Derek Flint said:

First started sailing here in the 1990’s so it was that or the Lady Of Mann. The latter was like a converted fishing ketch.

The Ben isn’t a good sea boat, at least where passengers are involved.The only other of that design was sold to the NZ Navy and it proved unworkable...

 

 

 

There’s a whole lot of difference between a Ben class boat sailing in the Irish Sea or the Western Channel and deep sea, like RNZS Canterbury. Deep sea has much greater swell, waves and is much rougher in storms.
 

Ben, King Orry, Manx Viking, Tynwald, etc are all RoPax freight and passenger. 
 

Lady was a compromise design also, she was an amazing sea boat. Don’t understand why you found her uncomfortable.

Smallish boats, very rough seas, and any crossing can be uncomfortable, on any boat. Even the sisters were uncomfortable in rough crossings.

Then even the big car ferries, cruise ferries, like BF operate across Biscay, Pont Aven, Mont Michel, Cap Finistere ( or the smaller Kerry, Connemara - nearer in size and design to Ben ) are multi use, and depend on the freight to be economically viable. And, having done a couple of 40+ hour crossings to Spain, just as uncomfortable in storms.

Just a thought, I suppose your Lady trips would have been after they’d gutted some of the aft passenger accommodation to create additional car space. She lost torsional stability and twisted a bit in heavy seas after that.

Manx Viking was a good boat. 

 

[hissingsid]

Never had a problem sailing on any of the boats and had some horrendous trips weatherwise, perhaps it is more to do with sea legs rather than boat design.

[quilp]

The Stella Marina was ok for a while, light and airy.

 

[John Wright]

11 minutes ago, quilp said:

The Stella Marina was ok for a while, light and airy.

 

One short season. And a car ferry. Shame neither port had a link span. You’re correct Q, great lines and very comfortable.

[woolley]

1 hour ago, John Wright said:

 Ben, King Orry, Manx Viking, Tynwald, etc are all RoPax freight and passenger.

Manx Viking was a good boat. 

 

There is no comparison between the very limited passenger accommodation on the Ben compared with the others you mention. It gives every indication of only being there on sufferance, incidental to the main profitable business of freight. Very poor indeed, particularly in its original condition and not a great deal better after the small extension.

Agree about the Manx Viking. She was revolutionary on the route compared with the Steam Packet fleet of side loaders and remaining passenger steamers of the late 70s. If she had not shaken things up as she did, I wonder how long it would have been before the Steamy got themselves a ro-ro.

[John Wright]

3 minutes ago, woolley said:

There is no comparison between the very limited passenger accommodation on the Ben compared with the others you mention. It gives every indication of only being there on sufferance, incidental to the main profitable business of freight. Very poor indeed, particularly in its original condition and not a great deal better after the small extension.

Agree about the Manx Viking. She was revolutionary on the route compared with the Steam Packet fleet of side loaders and remaining passenger steamers of the late 70s. If she had not shaken things up as she did, I wonder how long it would have been before the Steamy got themselves a ro-ro.

That doesn’t mean that 25 years after she was designed, with 100’s of dual use RoPax designed, built and used since, from 100m to 200m, that there aren’t design solutions which could bring passenger capacity up to 800.

Many, of even the largest cruise ferries, have much more cabin capacity. A 2 sleeping berth cabin can accommodate 4 seated during the day. So they tend to be short on passenger lounges, even for short crossings. And they all have much more deck seating and walking areas. This could be built out over the open car freight deck at level 5