Hospitality Call to Arms!

[Derek Flint]

Just now, finlo said:

That's because they disappeared off with drunken stray waifs to remote places!

Not on the patrols I was on

[slinkydevil]

3 hours ago, Derek Flint said:

The turn of the Millennium was the start of the decline. That said, Douglas was like the bloody wild west when I first started policing it in 98, and I'd come straight from Blackpool Licensing Unit!

Standards needed to improve and they did. The frequency of people getting the shit kicked out of them went down.

 

Bit of wild west was all part of the fun. Spoilsport. 

[Max Power]

47 minutes ago, Derek Flint said:

I presume you mean Op Centurion as opposed to the Metropolitan Police black-on-black gang violence unit.

Centurion was a pain in the arse on a number of levels. A bit primitive in some areas, but it did improve standards. Not sure where you get the 'scouse bouncers' thing from ?

The biggest issue was the IOM was bouncing then. There weren't enough cops to meet the demand of policing that time of night time economy.

 

But that's doing things the wrong way around surely, because there's not enough cops everyone has to suffer, businesses, punters, the exchequer and the island in general. A typical Isle of Man Government answer to a growing market!

The scouse bouncer was the guy who claims that he was brought over by the police to clean up the nightlife of Douglas, a hoodlum who still gets his staff into pubs at a price, whether they need him or not. I saw him commit a few cases of dubious professional misconduct. I saw his staff at Seven Kingdom when it first opened, people out for a meal and a quiet drink with two lazy bastards on the door, the only action they had was loudly telling everyone to drink up and get out!

[Fred the shred]

The restaurants and pubs that do food are their own worst enemies they have raised their prices up to cover their costs but the quality of food has not improved. Lots of people are now getting takeaways because they are not getting value for money especially when they are buying wine by the glass, a medium glass of low quality wine costs more than the bottle that it is getting served from and there are five glasses in a bottle, now that is just greed and people aren’t soft.   If you are in company and buy a bottle between you then it is not excessive because obviously you can see the label but buy a glass of * House Wine * and you are getting very poor value.   People are turning their back on eating out because of prices that seem to increase every time you go out.    They have priced themselves out of business.    The best will survive and flourish the others won’t that is Business what ever you are selling and every business is in the same boat.

[A fool and his money.....]

6 hours ago, Anthony Ingham said:

A decent statement making some valid points, especially regarding tax thresholds and low earners.

Unfortunately, statements like “. We reject the notion that the Island’s government cannot amend our VAT system when our fellow Crown Dependencies have zero or 5% sales tax rates” undermine the whole thing and show a basic lack of understanding of the VAT arrangements here and in Jersey.

There you go again. As far as I'm aware  domestic building work in the UK is all taxed @ 20% VAT. Here materials supplied and fitted are 5%, new builds 0%.

If they can alter the rates for building work, they can alter the rates for hospitality too.

But obviously you're an expert on our VAT arrangements as well as company directors and can't lower yourself to share your vast knowledge with us plebs, so you'll just be condescending as usual.

[A fool and his money.....]

3 hours ago, Ringy Rose said:

We have a VAT treaty with the UK which means that we have to charge the same rates of VAT as they do.

The building supplies reduction to 5% wasn’t an IOM initiative.

 

Are you sure about that? Pretty sure it's 20% in the UK and the 5% is a Manx initiative designed to reduce cash jobs (IE benefit the government)

[Gizo]

3 hours ago, Derek Flint said:

The biggest issue was the IOM was bouncing then. There weren't enough cops to meet the demand of policing that time of night time economy.

So you killed it. Like I said. The police destroyed the night time economy. It’s like they still do, forever being killjoys.  
that knob head copper from peel goes into schools and encourages children to stay indoors.  At least the kids laugh at him. 

[Anthony Ingham]

1 hour ago, A fool and his money..... said:

There you go again. As far as I'm aware  domestic building work in the UK is all taxed @ 20% VAT. Here materials supplied and fitted are 5%, new builds 0%.

If they can alter the rates for building work, they can alter the rates for hospitality too.

But obviously you're an expert on our VAT arrangements as well as company directors and can't lower yourself to share your vast knowledge with us plebs, so you'll just be condescending as usual.

Clueless.

The UK have a five percent VAT rate for certain types of building work.  We have an agreement with them which means we can apply that rate to other types of building work.  

That is manageable, unlike us just deciding to apply a lower rate to an industry where there is no mechanism to do that in the UK.  

I wasn’t being condescending on suggesting someone look it up.  I really am not very good at explaining things to people and all the info needed is online explained in a concise and easy to understand way much better than I could ever write.

 

Edited April 19 by Anthony Ingham

[Derek Flint]

11 hours ago, Max Power said:

But that's doing things the wrong way around surely, because there's not enough cops everyone has to suffer, businesses, punters, the exchequer and the island in general. A typical Isle of Man Government answer to a growing market!

The scouse bouncer was the guy who claims that he was brought over by the police to clean up the nightlife of Douglas, a hoodlum who still gets his staff into pubs at a price, whether they need him or not. I saw him commit a few cases of dubious professional misconduct. I saw his staff at Seven Kingdom when it first opened, people out for a meal and a quiet drink with two lazy bastards on the door, the only action they had was loudly telling everyone to drink up and get out!

Basically CiD, traffic, family protection, training all rerostered duties to enhance weekend cover. Nobody "suffered" except those that chose to cause trouble. The cells were full every weekend, with people who were arrested as early as possible to avoid escalation and people getting hurt. 

The operation won an international award. 

I have no knowledge about some 'scouse bouncer being brought in' but it sounds about as plausible as the Island Plan

9 hours ago, Gizo said:

So you killed it. Like I said. The police destroyed the night time economy. It’s like they still do, forever being killjoys.  
that knob head copper from peel goes into schools and encourages children to stay indoors.  At least the kids laugh at him. 

Killjoys?

So stopping women getting sexually assaulted,  people ending up with life changing injuries and the like?

Where do you get your kicks? Casualty Department? 

11 hours ago, slinkydevil said:

Bit of wild west was all part of the fun. Spoilsport. 

It really wasn't fun. 

If we really want our night time economy to be dominated by lagered-up cokeheads, leaving a Kipling smog of cake flavoured vape steam wafting behind then as they mill their way through the town, then that's for the public to decide. Its certainly the atmosphere in most provincial towns over here and it isn't pleasant. 

There's a creeping culture of what someone described the other day as 'entitled lawlessness' in the UK. Let's hope that it doesn't jump species and take hold on the Island.

[A fool and his money.....]

10 hours ago, Anthony Ingham said:

Clueless.

The UK have a five percent VAT rate for certain types of building work.  We have an agreement with them which means we can apply that rate to other types of building work.  

That is manageable, unlike us just deciding to apply a lower rate to an industry where there is no mechanism to do that in the UK.  

 

 

Why is one difference, and a not inconsiderable difference, "manageable" whereas another difference is not? 

It's a revenue sharing agreement after all. Both differences cause a vast difference in VAT revenue across the industry, why can only one be accommodated?

What are the"mechanisms " which make one calculation possible but the other entirely impossible? 

Don't worry about not being good at explaining, just give us a run down on the exact mechanism which prevents this and let us decipher it. I have been unable to find it online. 

My suspicion is that where there's a will there's a way.

[lfc84]

Whilst people are getting hammered by rent, mortgages, utilities, Loganair and the Steam Packet the solutions put forward would only have limited success. Joe Public only has a limited amount of discretionary spend and it's becoming less and less 

[Roger Mexico]

13 hours ago, Max Power said:

But that's doing things the wrong way around surely, because there's not enough cops everyone has to suffer, businesses, punters, the exchequer and the island in general. A typical Isle of Man Government answer to a growing market!

To answer all the cries about the beleaguered police force being overwhelmed by the night-time economy and there not being enough police to cope, it's worth pointing out that the latest reported number of police is 223, which would equate to 264 police per 100,000 population.  In terms of England and Wales Forces, this would make it #7 highest in ratio of officers to population, with most of those higher being large centres of population (eg the Met, Merseyside).

[piebaps]

4 hours ago, Derek Flint said:

If we really want our night time economy to be dominated by lagered-up cokeheads, leaving a Kipling smog of cake flavoured vape steam wafting behind then as they mill their way through the town

We have that here now. Despite all the cash Ken is raking in. A landlord told me that the invoice he got for training included VAT so Ken's doing OK.

I was chatting to my local landlord last night and asked if he went to the Call to Arms. He said no and it was frankly embarrassing. He knows his business and his market and is doing OK. If there was some free Gov cash sloshing around he'd take it.

If a business is struggling then it needs to look inwardly first. Chucking taxpayer money into underperforming businesses isn't the answer.

Edited April 20 by piebaps

[finlo]

1 minute ago, piebaps said:

 

If a business is struggling then it needs to look inwardly first. Chucking taxpayer money into underperforming businesses isn't the answer.

Seems to work as a concept within government.

[Gladys]

9 minutes ago, piebaps said:

We have that here now. Despite all the cash Ken is raking in. A landlord told me that the invoice he got for training included VAT so Ken's doing OK.

I was chatting to my local landlord last night and asked if he went to the Call to Arms. He said no and it was frankly embarrassing. He knows his business and his market and is doing OK. If there was some free Gov cash sloshing around he'd take it.

If a business is struggling then it needs to look inwardly first. Chucking taxpayer money into underperforming businesses isn't the answer.

Is the training 'Ken' offers something that is obligatory in the UK, or is  it something we dreamt up?