HeliX Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 4 minutes ago, P.K. said: What a relief that must be for the killed and injured... No, obviously civilian casualties are appalling whenever and whyever they happen. But that wasn't the point being argued, the rockets are bottle rockets that pose virtually no threat to anyone in Israel. Unlike the sniper fire that the IDF keep directing into the bodies of civilians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 1 hour ago, Shake me up Judy said: Why should Israel show restraint ? Why only Israel ? What about the states who are lobbing the rockets and constantly attacking Israel ? Shouldn't they show restraint ? Yes, all parties should show restraint. I am not just critical of the Israeli Government but Iran has simply used the same justification as Israel did. Iran are claiming "self-defence" following an attack on a consulate by another state. I don't support what Iran did but I can imagine that Tehran felt that not responding would weaken their position in the region. 1 hour ago, Shake me up Judy said: The Arabs didn't 'own' the area of Palestine. The clue's in their name. They're Arabs and not native to the region like the Jews who lived there thousands of years ago. The Arab empire colonised it during the Moslem conquests of the Middle-East around CE600. If you're going to quote it then get the history right. It's no use raising the Irish question either. There's hardly a country on earth that 's not been settled and resettled many times over thousands of years, including the IOM. Look at Europe over just the last century or so. Ireland's not unique by any stretch. Which rather just illustrates my point... How many wars have been fought over contested territory throughout human history. If you do not want to look at history then point to any country which would be happy to have a piece, or all of it, given away to another people by a foreign power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 2 hours ago, HeliX said: No, obviously civilian casualties are appalling whenever and whyever they happen. But that wasn't the point being argued, the rockets are bottle rockets that pose virtually no threat to anyone in Israel. Unlike the sniper fire that the IDF keep directing into the bodies of civilians. What part of: 7 hours ago, P.K. said: Ever more facile nonsense... Palestinians have been firing rockets into Israel since 2004 ffs! The Grad rockets they use have a 20kg warhead. is it that you don't understand? You need to give your arse a chance: Grad 122mm 9M22, a High-Explosive Fragmentation (HE-Frag), electrically-initiated, fin and spin-stabilised, Ground-to-Ground Rocket (GGR). When detonated the internal scoring of the M-21-OF warhead creates approximately 3,150 fragments which are scattered over a lethal radius of about 28m. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 How many are serviceable is open to question but the mullah's arsenal of fireworks is quite substantial. The purple displays were especially colourful. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 14 minutes ago, quilp said: How many are serviceable is open to question but the mullah's arsenal of fireworks is quite substantial. The purple displays were especially colourful. Suggestions by commentators on Sky News this morning that the barrage could have been a lot worse. Apparently there was a failure to launch rate of <60% of the Iranian munitions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 Next time it will be a lot worse, and all the people involved should do everything they can to ensure that there is no next time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 Even the lunatic Putin is appealing for calm ffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 8 minutes ago, TheTeapot said: Even the lunatic Putin is appealing for calm ffs. That's because he doesn't want Iran to use all the weapons he could be using in Ukraine. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 18 hours ago, HeliX said: The IDF is armed and co-ordinated by the US. They have fired two nuclear bombs worth of explosive material into Gaza, causing the deaths of 30,000 people. It is entirely within Gaza's right to self-defense to take out the people arming, planning and co-ordinating those attacks... Duh ... Yes an armed conflict exists between Hamas & Israel. The bigger point is this is just one element of Iran's larger proxy war against Israel & surprise surprise Israel is taking action against Iran's increasingly open coordination of the hostilities. Iran spreads terrorism across the world. It has attacked a journalist in London just recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Chinahand said: Iran spreads terrorism across the world. It has attacked a journalist in London just recently. Everyone jumps into bed with the Saudis though, they funded 9/11 and murdered a journalist and cut him up! Edited April 16 by TheTeapot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 It seems that any country can get into a conflict with its neighbours and commit all sorts of war crimes and atrocities, a lot are written off as just the outcome of war. That is unless it happens to be Israel and the Jewish people responding to pre-planned provocations by an Arab alliance which was arranged to have the effect of stirring the underlying antisemitic hatred which some idiots have. The pawns in Iran's and their puppets game are the Palestinian people, it is they who are paying the price for their leaders ambitions to drive Israel into the sea, which has been the mantra all along! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 12 hours ago, manxman1980 said: @P.K. do you genuinely believe that the Israeli Government has done nothing worthy of criticism in its response to the terrible attack on the 7th October? Even Israel's allies have been calling for restraint both prior to and after the missile and drone attack by Iran. I cannot help but wonder what happened to the aim of rescuing the hostages that were taken on the 7th October. I suspect that they will all have been killed either by Hamas or by the Israeli attacks unless they were somehow evacuated out of Gaza by Hamas. Trying to unpick any of this is a nightmare and unfortunately is the consequence of the decision in the 1940's to gift the Jewish people a new state in an area that people were already living. In the end I don't think it would have mattered where the new state of Israel was created as gifting a country/state where people were already living to another group of people is always going to cause an issue. Look what happened when chunks of land in Northern Ireland were taken from the existing Catholic population and gifted to Presbyterian Scots. How long did it take to resolve that one? The partition of India had some 14m to 18m people on the move with around 1m fatalities. Absolutely shocking! As I have pointed out the surrounding Arab nations have to take some of the blame for the situation especially the refugee camps which are growing every day with stateless people deliberately kept in limbo and going nowhere. It should be noted that the Palestinians blame Israel and not the UN and the Arab states for the bind they are in. Mind you, they expect the UN to feed them while they wait for the fall of Israel... I have never thought the Israelis were squeaky clean but I admire them for what they have achieved. On the IDF they are very professional. However the sheer brutality of the October assault means that a lot will be looking for revenge - a perfectly normal human reaction. However they put themselves and their comrades at risk if it overtakes their training. I don't agree with the settler expansion in the West Bank. I read somewhere that the "military assistance" was reservists "helping" out. But then Israel has bulldozed settlements before and can do it again. Yes it's a mess... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 3 hours ago, Max Power said: It seems that any country can get into a conflict with its neighbours and commit all sorts of war crimes and atrocities, a lot are written off as just the outcome of war. That is unless it happens to be Israel and the Jewish people responding to pre-planned provocations by an Arab alliance which was arranged to have the effect of stirring the underlying antisemitic hatred which some idiots have. Doubtless many anti-semites will jump on this as another reason to bash Israel (and the Jews) over the head. But many, many Jewish people are also disgusted by the behaviour of the Israeli Government. And a lot of the reason for the worldwide protests is that the host countries are supporting the behaviour of Israel. Keir Starmer, a human rights lawyer(!), claimed Israel had the right to turn off water to 2million civilians. There is little point protesting against, say, Russia in the UK because the UK Govt is already anti-Russia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 9 hours ago, HeliX said: Doubtless many anti-semites will jump on this as another reason to bash Israel (and the Jews) over the head. But many, many Jewish people are also disgusted by the behaviour of the Israeli Government. And a lot of the reason for the worldwide protests is that the host countries are supporting the behaviour of Israel. Keir Starmer, a human rights lawyer(!), claimed Israel had the right to turn off water to 2million civilians. There is little point protesting against, say, Russia in the UK because the UK Govt is already anti-Russia. The water issue is just another indicator that in it's present form Gaza is simply unsustainable... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 4 hours ago, P.K. said: The water issue is just another indicator that in it's present form Gaza is simply unsustainable... And that Israel has violent intent against civilians. And that Keir Starmer is unfit to be Prime Minister. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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