Taxpayers to dig for £20M for Liverpool Dock

[code99]

36 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

1. All I am saying is that there is no one to sack for this.

2. So what's the point on folks keep saying someone should be sacked? 

3. Government is ultimately accountable. But you can't sack them.

 

1. This is exactly the sort of thing the IOMG’s shills trot out after every failure (I bet that several similar narratives have already been prepared and rehearsed to justify future failures). Unfortunately, it is the taxpayers who will have to ultimately  pay the bills.

2. Why? Because our most senior politicians have been in power for the last 10 years and the responsibility for the current sh*tshow lies squarely with them -  they, and senior civil servants are getting away with failures. They have embraced, in earnest, the concept that one can have 'responsibility' without accountability!

3. The only way to sack this Government is by the people via a GE.

[asitis]

4 hours ago, Happier diner said:

I am not making excuses. COVID is a reason for the cost going up. Fact. It's not the main reason though and I haven't said that have I?

All I am saying is that there is no one to sack for this. Black was responsible, he's gone. You can't take his pension away. Government is ultimately accountable. But you can't sack them.

So what's the point on folks keep saying someone should be sacked? 

You are correct in the difficulties of that I agree, however the taxpayers do need, going forward, some sanctions for the future instead of the constant "lessons have been learned", the only people learning the lessons appear to me to be the taxpayers and of course in respect of the SPCO those same people in the guise of users !

For the past thirty years all we have heard is lessons will be learned, no one person to blame, oh and we are where we are  etc etc etc ! Unless this is addressed we are going nowhere except back to spuds and herrings !

Edited May 11 by asitis

[A fool and his money.....]

4 hours ago, Happier diner said:

Black was responsible, he's gone. You can't take his pension away.

Yes you can. There would be a clause in his contract to account for gross misconduct. If wasting tens of millions of public money on an extremely poorly thought out and implemented project isn't gross misconduct then I don't know what is.

We simply should not be paying to keep this prick in the lap of luxury for the rest of his life!

Edited May 11 by A fool and his money.....

[asitis]

22 minutes ago, A fool and his money..... said:

Yes you can. There would be a clause in his contract to account for gross misconduct. If wasting tens of millions of public money on an extremely poorly thought out and implemented project isn't gross misconduct then I don't know what is.

We simply should not be paying to keep this prick in the lap of luxury for the rest of his life!

I think we need to know who drove the Liverpool centre at all costs scenario ! That would be interesting, I doubt that was one man !

[Non-Believer]

The issue is here that things are coming to a head and Joe Taxpayer is becoming frustrated with seeing millions of pounds of public money squandered by those who are receiving little or no sanction for it.

For instance, Black's pension may be one thing but he also received a £200k+ payoff and one or two other sweeteners to include "preferential terms" on the use of DOI premises at the Dhoon. He's also making ends meet driving buses for BV. Longworth is another after his contributions to the Promenade debacle.

These people were drummed out of the Dept in shame, they and everybody else know it; they shouldn't be anywhere near it now. Gone, banished. 

That they are still dipping is just further rubbing the public's collective nose in the pile of very expensive shit that they left. Joe Taxpayer is not seeing justice done for the tab he's been left with.

[Two-lane]

19 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

to include "preferential terms" on the use of DOI premises at the Dhoon

I did not realise that the DoI had any premises there.

[Non-Believer]

2 minutes ago, Two-lane said:

I did not realise that the DoI had any premises there.

So I'm told; workshop in the old Quarry where he indulges his Land-Rover habit...

[Roger Mexico]

A reminder of how this all started from a piece on the Afloat website in 2016, itself mainly taken from a now-vanished IOM Newspapers piece (presumably lost along with the rest of the archive when Tindle bought it)

The Isle of Government, Tynwald has voted to acquire a site in Liverpool for a new ferry terminal writes IOM Today.

The Manx Government are also to continue talks with the island's sole operator, the Isle of Man Steam Packet over a new sea services deal.

But following a raft of amendments, and amendments of amendments, the near-four hour debate ended in farce as it became clear that the court was not sure what it had voted for.

New Tynwald president Steve Rodan remarked: ‘You can look up in Hansard what we have just voted on if you are unclear!’

During the debate, the Steam Packet was criticised for its ‘threats and blackmail tactics’ and its motive in pursuing an early deal questioned, with a number of MHKs claiming a distressed fund manager called Anchorage which has a 31 per cent shareholding was just after making a quick profit.

There was no such questioning of the role of the Peel Group from whom a 236-year lease on Princes Half Tide Dock is to be purchased for a new ferry terminal for a price of up to £3.5m.

Indeed all Tynwald members appeared to support the move to buy the site despite no clear explanation being given as to why the taxpayer is to get involved at all, given that Peel had originally indicated it would fund the facility in its entirety – if it could get a guarantee of long-term commitment to the route.

Infrastructure Minister Phil Gawne said it was ‘an opportunity we would not want to miss’. He said any agreement to buy the site would provide for it to be returned to the owner at no cost to government if the development didn’t subsequently go ahead.

Leonard Singer (Ramsey) said the purchase of the site would mean we would control both ends of the route.

There will be an open tender for the design and build contract for the ferry terminal, the £25m cost funded by the developer. The DoI report says no work would begin ‘until a suitable agreement has been reached for its long-term use by IOMSPCo’.

Of course a lot of those voting would have standing down at the election later in the year (or had already decamped to LegCo) and others were helped on their way out by the voters.  Only Cannan, Thomas and Watterson, plus Henderson and Skelly are still around.  Full debate is here is you want to depress yourselves.

[Happier diner]

2 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

A reminder of how this all started from a piece on the Afloat website in 2016, itself mainly taken from a now-vanished IOM Newspapers piece (presumably lost along with the rest of the archive when Tindle bought it)

The Isle of Government, Tynwald has voted to acquire a site in Liverpool for a new ferry terminal writes IOM Today.

The Manx Government are also to continue talks with the island's sole operator, the Isle of Man Steam Packet over a new sea services deal.

But following a raft of amendments, and amendments of amendments, the near-four hour debate ended in farce as it became clear that the court was not sure what it had voted for.

New Tynwald president Steve Rodan remarked: ‘You can look up in Hansard what we have just voted on if you are unclear!’

During the debate, the Steam Packet was criticised for its ‘threats and blackmail tactics’ and its motive in pursuing an early deal questioned, with a number of MHKs claiming a distressed fund manager called Anchorage which has a 31 per cent shareholding was just after making a quick profit.

There was no such questioning of the role of the Peel Group from whom a 236-year lease on Princes Half Tide Dock is to be purchased for a new ferry terminal for a price of up to £3.5m.

Indeed all Tynwald members appeared to support the move to buy the site despite no clear explanation being given as to why the taxpayer is to get involved at all, given that Peel had originally indicated it would fund the facility in its entirety – if it could get a guarantee of long-term commitment to the route.

Infrastructure Minister Phil Gawne said it was ‘an opportunity we would not want to miss’. He said any agreement to buy the site would provide for it to be returned to the owner at no cost to government if the development didn’t subsequently go ahead.

Leonard Singer (Ramsey) said the purchase of the site would mean we would control both ends of the route.

There will be an open tender for the design and build contract for the ferry terminal, the £25m cost funded by the developer. The DoI report says no work would begin ‘until a suitable agreement has been reached for its long-term use by IOMSPCo’.

Of course a lot of those voting would have standing down at the election later in the year (or had already decamped to LegCo) and others were helped on their way out by the voters.  Only Cannan, Thomas and Watterson, plus Henderson and Skelly are still around.  Full debate is here is you want to depress yourselves.

And not one mention of whether the site was suitable. 

[asitis]

3 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

A reminder of how this all started from a piece on the Afloat website in 2016, itself mainly taken from a now-vanished IOM Newspapers piece (presumably lost along with the rest of the archive when Tindle bought it)

The Isle of Government, Tynwald has voted to acquire a site in Liverpool for a new ferry terminal writes IOM Today.

The Manx Government are also to continue talks with the island's sole operator, the Isle of Man Steam Packet over a new sea services deal.

But following a raft of amendments, and amendments of amendments, the near-four hour debate ended in farce as it became clear that the court was not sure what it had voted for.

New Tynwald president Steve Rodan remarked: ‘You can look up in Hansard what we have just voted on if you are unclear!’

During the debate, the Steam Packet was criticised for its ‘threats and blackmail tactics’ and its motive in pursuing an early deal questioned, with a number of MHKs claiming a distressed fund manager called Anchorage which has a 31 per cent shareholding was just after making a quick profit.

There was no such questioning of the role of the Peel Group from whom a 236-year lease on Princes Half Tide Dock is to be purchased for a new ferry terminal for a price of up to £3.5m.

Indeed all Tynwald members appeared to support the move to buy the site despite no clear explanation being given as to why the taxpayer is to get involved at all, given that Peel had originally indicated it would fund the facility in its entirety – if it could get a guarantee of long-term commitment to the route.

Infrastructure Minister Phil Gawne said it was ‘an opportunity we would not want to miss’. He said any agreement to buy the site would provide for it to be returned to the owner at no cost to government if the development didn’t subsequently go ahead.

Leonard Singer (Ramsey) said the purchase of the site would mean we would control both ends of the route.

There will be an open tender for the design and build contract for the ferry terminal, the £25m cost funded by the developer. The DoI report says no work would begin ‘until a suitable agreement has been reached for its long-term use by IOMSPCo’.

Of course a lot of those voting would have standing down at the election later in the year (or had already decamped to LegCo) and others were helped on their way out by the voters.  Only Cannan, Thomas and Watterson, plus Henderson and Skelly are still around.  Full debate is here is you want to depress yourselves.

Reading this just illustrates the footing on which all this began ! I see that drawling bastard Gawne was deeply entrenched !

[Non-Believer]

Gawne had a remarkable ability to convince Tynwald to part with large sums of money on very tenuously predicated reasons.

"No work would begin until a suitable agreement has been reached for its long-term use by the IoMSPCo".....

Is this the agreement that's currently being thrashed out now?

Edited May 12 by Non-Believer
Extra bit

[cissolt]

17 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

Gawne had a remarkable ability to convince Tynwald to part with large sums of money on very tenuously predicated reasons.

"No work would begin until a suitable agreement has been reached for its long-term use by the IoMSPCo".....

Is this the agreement that's currently being thrashed out now?

We will never get to the bottom of why this decision was made or where the 100 million has been spent.  The usual DOI shills might suggest they have no part of the blame here, but as Robertshaw has often stated 'we sent Sunday league staff to negotiate with premier league experts'

What is certain, the meddling from our govt has made everything worse.  A government run ferry service would be an absolute disaster.

[Omobono]

absolute tossers  cost this Island a fortune !

[2112]

Today’s nonsense brought to you by the NPM and Minister Crookall of the DoI, whereby Minister Crookall announces that the new Liverpool Ferry Terminal opening date is in the remit of the Steam Packet. Talk about buck passing. If it’s successful it’s IOMGs project and if its beset with issues upon opening, it’s then becomes a IOMPSco problem. 

[Jarndyce]

7 minutes ago, 2112 said:

Talk about buck passing. If it’s successful it’s IOMGs project and if its beset with issues upon opening, it’s then becomes a IOMPSco problem.

The very essence of the “arms length” concept.   Trebles all round for IOMG!