Chinahand Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 The challenge with the death sentence is that it creates basically a two tier justice system - crime & conviction sufficient to kill. Even in a country as death sentence happy as China all death sentence cases have to be reviewed by the Supreme Court. The result is a death row system where the simple reality is that more people enter the system than leave it via state sponsored killing. The result is a process which takes years and simply stops closure. Why - because real-life is more complex than the cut and dried cases most proponents use to justify killing people - the result is victims left with years of uncertainty and the case being raised again and again as it goes through appeals and re-examinations due to the simple fact people are fallible and errors are made. The US Death Row statistics show the total failure of the system: Sentence or conviction overturned 3,194 37.73% Remain on Death Row 2,979 35.19% Executed 1,359 16.05% Died by means other than execution 509 6.01% Sentence commuted 392 4.63% Other removals 33 0.39% 8,466 100.00% Between 1973 and 2013 nearly 8,500 people were sentenced to death in the US, of those 38% had their sentence overturned, 35% remain stuck on death row - on average for over 15 years - and only 16% had been executed. The idea other countries could do things significantly different without risking injustices isn't realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 38 minutes ago, censorship said: Finally, what is the policy for releasing photos of offenders? It doesn't seem to happen often, but I'd query why it happens at all, and whether it is legal. Presumably the images are held, under the DPA, by the police for the purposes of preventing and detecting crime. He's been convicted, so releasing his image serves neither purpose. If the 'excuse' is that releasing his image may bring more victims forward, therefore detecting crime, then why wait until now? It has been clear for some time that mistaken identity wasn't going to be a defence, so there was no reason not to issue it earlier to 'detect crime'. I'm not really sure what the policy is, but it's odd how rarely it happens - in the UK it seems pretty standard on conviction though not earlier. It may simply because the media here only ask for it for it on rare occasions. If they want a photo they simply raid social media - as IOM Newspapers did for their first story for example. In this case the police probably held back before conviction because of not wanting to 'contaminate' the jury trial with any extra information put in the public domain, However after conviction it may well be that further accusations are made - it wouldn't be a surprise given that this guy seems to have a pattern of offending. So more information including photos might encourage that process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 its been stated elsewhere he still has an active profile on a well known fishing site, more cases to come? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinkle Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 15 hours ago, Chinahand said: I hope the victims can gain some closure with his conviction. I'm glad the police and prosecutors were able to build their case against him. I honestly don't know what to make of the people who advocate killing him. I don't know what sort of society they think it would produce the evidence would seem to show a brutish one. I was mugged in China once, in the UK I would have gladly identified the perpetrators if given the opportunity. In China, violent robbery against a foreigner could easily end with a bullet in the back of the head. I insisted to the police I had no idea who attacked me and made no mention of their triad scars and distinctive clothes. Some of the worst violence people can do has been ordered by people in special robes banging down their gavel. The idea this makes society better is objectively false but oh so attractive to a certain type of personality as we see demonstrated once again here. I'm glad this man will have to endure many years behind bars. Is that not enough? NO, if he's birched every day of his incarceration,fine,otherwise hang the bastard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinkle Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 2 hours ago, quilp said: Yanks... hoy you,my grandchildren are yanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! now go back to sleep$$$$$$$$$$$$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 41 minutes ago, twinkle said: NO, if he's birched every day of his incarceration,fine,otherwise hang the bastard. Unable to comprehend the brutalising consequences of violence. Oh, it's the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piebaps Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Only when a mosquito lands on your ballsack and starts eating his lunch do you really appreciate that violence is not always the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Yes, in that situation then subtlety is required. Perhaps invite the mosquito to share his lunch with you in a cafe, or somewhere with a nicer environment and ambience. Tell him you'd like to get to know him a bit before there's any misunderstanding. He might even meet other mosquitos; hell they're sociable enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thommo2010 Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Censorship what did the police do to you that makes you hate them so much? Why shouldn't the police be happy with the result? A lot of hours and hardwork went in to getting a dangerous man off the streets hour upon hour was put in speaking with the victims and supporting them. So yes the police should pat themselves on the back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 9 hours ago, Roger Mexico said: I'm not really sure what the policy is, but it's odd how rarely it happens - in the UK it seems pretty standard on conviction though not earlier. It may simply because the media here only ask for it for it on rare occasions. If they want a photo they simply raid social media - as IOM Newspapers did for their first story for example. In this case the police probably held back before conviction because of not wanting to 'contaminate' the jury trial with any extra information put in the public domain, However after conviction it may well be that further accusations are made - it wouldn't be a surprise given that this guy seems to have a pattern of offending. So more information including photos might encourage that process. Isn't the legal process a matter of public record and rightly so? So publishing a photo of the convicted is a matter of that public openness. Have to say, the detail of what and how he did what he did is pretty scant. If it was the UK there would be much more detail of the evidence presented and would usually result in an in-depth report in the press and on TV of what went on in the event of a guilty verdict. I am not advocating salacious reporting, just openness in what is a public process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackCarter Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 16 minutes ago, Gladys said: Isn't the legal process a matter of public record and rightly so? So publishing a photo of the convicted is a matter of that public openness. Have to say, the detail of what and how he did what he did is pretty scant. If it was the UK there would be much more detail of the evidence presented and would usually result in an in-depth report in the press and on TV of what went on in the event of a guilty verdict. I am not advocating salacious reporting, just openness in what is a public process. Why? Many victims might run the risk of being identified, I assume, if they did that. It's a small community here where everyone knows everyone else and too much information could unwittingly expose innocent people if they were not careful about what was reported. Why does anyone need to know more details? The guy was a total shit bag who got 18 years for raping and sexually assaulting various women. Does anyone really need to know much more than that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gettafa Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 The details are not part of a judgment and so not published. The decision was made by a jury, however, if there is an appeal then there is a judgment and every sordid detail is included. There is a quite recent case where a guy was found guilty of interfeing with his chidren and others. He decided to appeal against the sentence (which he lost ). The details of what he did are in the judgment and on the record (and make for disturbing reading). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Like I say, the legal process is a public process. Of course the interests of the victims are paramount. But do you not think that the victims of UK crimes are equally liable to identification in their village, street, manor (doffs cap to Barrie)? I suspect most people who know this guy know who the victims are anyway. It just bothers me a little that because we are a 'small community' that is seen as a justification for not having open reporting. But we are, in reality, no smaller a community than any other; no matter what the population size is, each person will have the same degree of nexus with others. It is a convenient shroud over what is a public process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thommo2010 Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 47 minutes ago, Gladys said: Isn't the legal process a matter of public record and rightly so? So publishing a photo of the convicted is a matter of that public openness. Have to say, the detail of what and how he did what he did is pretty scant. If it was the UK there would be much more detail of the evidence presented and would usually result in an in-depth report in the press and on TV of what went on in the event of a guilty verdict. I am not advocating salacious reporting, just openness in what is a public process. Why do you need to know what he did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gettafa Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 We're a 'small close knit community' when it suits a particular cause. I've lived various places, town and country, and in this respect Isle of Man is no different than anywhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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