Chris C Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 4 hours ago, Non-Believer said: From today's Independent. Try this business case approach with your bank manager and see what reaction you get. I guess you could describe it as disappointing. I think it would more accurately be described as a clear indication of the trustworthiness of Manx Gas. Why didn't they just ask to see accounts? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 37 minutes ago, Chris C said: Why didn't they just ask to see accounts? What rights do they have to do that? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlo Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 7 minutes ago, Happier diner said: What rights do they have to do that? Every if they're holding their grubby mits out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 Even Cannan duly said that if the gas supply to consumers was interrupted, Govt would step in to ensure continuity. Yet despite being lacking in supplied financial details, our elected voted through this huge rise with just a little huffing and puffing. Once again IoMG demonstrates its eagerness to fall to its knees in front of the open flies of a local monopoly supplier with the GMP simply expected to stump up for the tissues and wetwipes. Another Houseful of spineless wasters. God help those consumers on low and fixed incomes if this winter is bad. 7 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris C Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 27 minutes ago, Happier diner said: What rights do they have to do that? They have no rights, MG is a private company. They had every right to decline the increase though, until MG proved its necessity. 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris C Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 Imagine going to the benefits office because you can't afford to eat or heat your house and saying "no I don't have a tax return and I'm not going to fill in your income form. You're just going to have to take my word for it I'm broke." I wonder how much you would get? 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 57 minutes ago, Chris C said: Imagine going to the benefits office because you can't afford to eat or heat your house and saying "no I don't have a tax return and I'm not going to fill in your income form. You're just going to have to take my word for it I'm broke." I wonder how much you would get? When IEG bought Manx Gas do you think they bought it for our benefit. They bought it to make money. It's a commercial arrangement. They have the right to negotiate terms relating to their charges. I don't know why we disapprove of this or find it surprising. When you claim benefits the same does not really apply does it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris C Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 38 minutes ago, Happier diner said: When IEG bought Manx Gas do you think they bought it for our benefit. They bought it to make money. It's a commercial arrangement. They have the right to negotiate terms relating to their charges. I don't know why we disapprove of this or find it surprising. I don't find it surprising in the least. What I do find surprising is that our government (who are supposed to be for our benefit) decided to say yes to those terms without bothering to find out what their charges are! That would be bad enough for them to do with any private company, let alone one that has a proven history of profiteering and had very recently asked for three times as much. I don't believe for one minute that MG are just breaking even. If they were why would they be so cagey with information on their finances? 1 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 10 hours ago, Chris C said: I don't find it surprising in the least. What I do find surprising is that our government (who are supposed to be for our benefit) decided to say yes to those terms without bothering to find out what their charges are! That would be bad enough for them to do with any private company, let alone one that has a proven history of profiteering and had very recently asked for three times as much. I don't believe for one minute that MG are just breaking even. If they were why would they be so cagey with information on their finances? You are being a little naive in my opinion. Firstly we do know what there charges are. We also know what they pay us to deliver gas to them. We know how much we pay for gas so it's safe to assume that they pay a similar amount. We know that they are getting less for the gas that they are selling than they are paying for it. It's very naive to think that if we forced them to go bust by holding them in a position that is not sustainable that they will just thrown us the keys as they leave the building. What about the other creditors. I don't deny that it's possible to bring it back into public ownership, but not without cost and also the gas has to keep flowing in the meantime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 (edited) The whole thing stinks IMHO. Firstly, a week's delay, as proposed by Claire Christian to glean further information is stymied by a vote. What difference would a week to gain further facts have made to the position? None at all, MG aren't going to collapse in that time frame. Our under-informed elected then vote for the increase. Alf Cannan then comes out with a lot of sanctimonious shite about Govt not being prepared to be held over a barrel (which is exactly what has been done) and being prepared to step in if the gas supply was interrupted. So there never was any chance that this would happen. SOMEBODY wanted this increase pushed through at all costs IMHO. And the way to do it was to scare "ill-informed" (and we'll keep them that way, just to be sure) MHKs into voting for it - which they promptly did. I'm amazed that finance professionals such as Lawrie Hooper and Chris Thomas didn't call for further information before voting, people of their background should know better. At least the Bishop and Wannenburgh had the balls to stand up against it. Edited October 23, 2021 by Non-Believer Typo 6 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian rush Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 Do people want gas this winter at below cost or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris C Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Happier diner said: You are being a little naive in my opinion. Firstly we do know what there charges are. We also know what they pay us to deliver gas to them. We know how much we pay for gas so it's safe to assume that they pay a similar amount. We know that they are getting less for the gas that they are selling than they are paying for it. It's very naive to think that if we forced them to go bust by holding them in a position that is not sustainable that they will just thrown us the keys as they leave the building. What about the other creditors. I don't deny that it's possible to bring it back into public ownership, but not without cost and also the gas has to keep flowing in the meantime. You're the one arguing that we had no option but to take the word of a private company with a long history of profiteering and you think I'm being naive? What would MG be worth if Tynwald voted no? They'd be crying out to sell and it would be a buyer's market. They're not just going to go bust and walk away without looking for a buyer. You really think MG have been selling gas at a loss for weeks and are now going to be selling it and only break even for the foreseeable future? If you do you're not only naive, you're a bloody idiot. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floors4u Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 59 minutes ago, Chris C said: You're the one arguing that we had no option but to take the word of a private company with a long history of profiteering and you think I'm being naive? What would MG be worth if Tynwald voted no? They'd be crying out to sell and it would be a buyer's market. They're not just going to go bust and walk away without looking for a buyer. You really think MG have been selling gas at a loss for weeks and are now going to be selling it and only break even for the foreseeable future? If you do you're not only naive, you're a bloody idiot. Shifty goings on , no doubt about it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CallMeCurious Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 16 hours ago, Happier diner said: What rights do they have to do that? Erm government should have all the information from tax & duty/VAT anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 19 hours ago, Non-Believer said: Even Cannan duly said that if the gas supply to consumers was interrupted, Govt would step in to ensure continuity. Yet despite being lacking in supplied financial details, our elected voted through this huge rise with just a little huffing and puffing. Once again IoMG demonstrates its eagerness to fall to its knees in front of the open flies of a local monopoly supplier with the GMP simply expected to stump up for the tissues and wetwipes. Another Houseful of spineless wasters. God help those consumers on low and fixed incomes if this winter is bad. In some ways I don't blame the politicians.... why didn't the DOI executives (or whichever dept it is responsible for the MG contract) not get their hands on the latest set of accounts before Tynwald sat??? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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