Sentience Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 Troops, Tanks & Bombs in 2022....Two thousand and twenty-two years!! Didn't two world wars, Vietnam and countless other bloodbaths teach us anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 No. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passing Time Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 2 hours ago, Sentience said: Troops, Tanks & Bombs in 2022....Two thousand and twenty-two years!! Didn't two world wars, Vietnam and countless other bloodbaths teach us anything? Rhetorical question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 On 2/16/2022 at 10:30 AM, Sentience said: Troops, Tanks & Bombs in 2022....Two thousand and twenty-two years!! Didn't two world wars, Vietnam and countless other bloodbaths teach us anything? Whilst I think it's harsh that Ukraine will have to be told no to join NATO. It should be their decision. I don't really see how this is any different to the Cuban Missile crisis. Eventually Russia pulled out of having weapons on the US doorstep and NATO unfortunately have to do the same thing now. Nonetheless Putin is still a bond villain. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 Russia have nuclear weapons on NATO and Europe's doorstep. There's no comparison with the Cuban Missile crisis. NATO is no threat to Russia - Putin knows that but pretends otherwise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 38 minutes ago, Shake me up Judy said: NATO is no threat to Russia Isn't the whole point of NATO to be an implied threat to Russia? (or it at least was, towards the soviet union) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 What do you think that implied threat is, or was ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 'There's a vague faint line somewhere that if you cross we'll blow your shit up' I just think that if a bunch of countries have a military treaty and you aren't part of it then that's a threat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 You seem to draw an equivalence between the members of NATO and the Soviet Union/Russia. The Soviet Union was the reason for NATO when it occupied the whole of Eastern Europe (Directly or by proxy) after WW2 until the collapse of the Berlin Wall. Without NATO we'd all be speaking Russian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 1 hour ago, TheTeapot said: I just think that if a bunch of countries have a military treaty and you aren't part of it then that's a threat. Well it's how WW1 started. Unfortunately Eastern Europe is one massive plain that is extremely difficult to defend and Russia knows this. Russia has also been invaded many times in its past and wants a buffer zone to stop this happening ever again. I don't agree with it, but I do understand it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Shake me up Judy said: You seem to draw an equivalence between the members of NATO and the Soviet Union/Russia. The Soviet Union was the reason for NATO when it occupied the whole of Eastern Europe (Directly or by proxy) after WW2 until the collapse of the Berlin Wall. Without NATO we'd all be speaking Russian. It's very much a chicken and egg scenario. Was the Warsaw Pact in response to NATO or vice versa? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passing Time Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 Britain should never have closed their bases in Germany. When BAOR was fully active, we had a useful deterrent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 1 hour ago, TheTeapot said: 'There's a vague faint line somewhere that if you cross we'll blow your shit up' I just think that if a bunch of countries have a military treaty and you aren't part of it then that's a threat. Do you really think Sweden feels threatened by the existence of NATO countries surrounding it? Sweden knows how to behave, understands it cannot threaten force to derail peaceful policy choices. Russia on the other hand ... Peaceful countries need a deterrence against those who threatened illegitimate violence in the international sphere. Such a deterrence is no threat to countries which behave. Hence Sweden has no concerns. Russia on the other hand ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, Chinahand said: Do you really think Sweden feels threatened by the existence of NATO countries surrounding it? Sweden knows how to behave, understands it cannot threaten force to derail peaceful policy choices. Russia on the other hand ... Peaceful countries need a deterrence against those who threatened illegitimate violence in the international sphere. Such a deterrence is no threat to countries which behave. Hence Sweden has no concerns. Russia on the other hand ... I know all this China, my objection was to the statement 'NATO is no threat to Russia', which I don't agree with, its very existence is a threat to Russia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 Only if Russia attempts to us violence illegitimately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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