Allinson ~ assisted dying won't be the "cause of death" to get life insurance payouts

[Ringy Rose]

14 hours ago, Two-lane said:

I do not see how a doctor creating a lie on a death certificate will change things.

Is it a lie? It’s an interesting moral argument. Is the cause of death “assisted suicide” if the reason for that “assisted suicide” is the terminal illness?

1 hour ago, Andy Onchan said:

After all, we all know that most deaths in a hospice result from an overdose of a lethal substance.

Do we? That’s a serious allegation to make. 

[Two-lane]

17 minutes ago, Ringy Rose said:

s it a lie? It’s an interesting moral argument. Is the cause of death “assisted suicide” if the reason for that “assisted suicide” is the terminal illness?

I do not think that it is a moral argument. For example, if someone shoots themself in the head I would expect the death certificate to say "Gunshot wound to the head", rather than "cancer".

 

[Two-lane]

I also expect that before making this statement Allinson consulted both lawyers and insurance companies and put the findings in footnotes to the speech.

[Ringy Rose]

52 minutes ago, Two-lane said:

For example, if someone shoots themself in the head I would expect the death certificate to say "Gunshot wound to the head", rather than "cancer".

If you turn off a life support machine is the cause of death “turning off the life support machine”?

If you withdraw fluids is the cause of death dehydration or starvation?

 

[John Wright]

Isn’t this a complete red herring and irrelevant from an insurance perspective?

Isn't it more about social sensibilities of not having suicide or assisted dying on the death certificate?

Most (99%+) insurance policies will pay out in case of suicide, assisted or not. There is a common exclusion of not paying out within 12 or 24 months ( actual period differs by company )of taking out the policy.

If you had a ( known to you ) terminal condition at the time you wanted to take  out the policy you’d have to declare it. Then you’re uninsurable, anyway.

[Barlow]

6 hours ago, Shake me up Judy said:

Insurance companies will always find a loophole. They also have the best lawyers. The good doctor is unconvincing - and he knows it.

The good doctor has a huge ego to feed, he does not have the self-analysis to see whether he is unconvincing, and it is fair to say many people seem to latch onto his every word. Propelled to the dizzy heights of Isle of Man Government he wants to make his mark

 

3 hours ago, La Colombe said:

I can't see the Isle of Man ever leading the UK on something as radical as assisted death. So it's all just chatter really. 

Although it's not just chatter, it's being taken through the course of our very Parliament. (Yeah, ok, it is just chatter)

 

1 hour ago, Two-lane said:

I also expect that before making this statement Allinson consulted both lawyers and insurance companies and put the findings in footnotes to the speech.

I would be surprised. He knows better.

[2112]

Allinsons assisted dying bill gets its second reading next week. Rob Callister has given it his seal of approval. Let’s see what happens?

[Fred the shred]

With most terminal illnesses the pain relieving medication usually plays a big part in the death and when people are put on the Liverpool Pathway that involves depriving patients of food and drink, a really cruel death would that not be a similar issue.    The patient has to be terminally ill with a prognosis of 6 months maximum, as I read it and the cause of death would be the illness I would say.    It will be a difficult one to define but I think it is worth the effort.

[Gladys]

22 minutes ago, Fred the shred said:

With most terminal illnesses the pain relieving medication usually plays a big part in the death and when people are put on the Liverpool Pathway that involves depriving patients of food and drink, a really cruel death would that not be a similar issue.    The patient has to be terminally ill with a prognosis of 6 months maximum, as I read it and the cause of death would be the illness I would say.    It will be a difficult one to define but I think it is worth the effort.

Do we still use the Liverpool pathway?

[Fred the shred]

I think it has lost its appeal this last few years as patients families had not been informed that this procedure had been decided on but my point is the patient had no input into this it was medics playing god.

[Albert Tatlock]

1 hour ago, Gladys said:

Do we still use the Liverpool pathway?

Have to...the Gatwick pathway never seems to operate properly these days.

[Max Power]

1 hour ago, Fred the shred said:

With most terminal illnesses the pain relieving medication usually plays a big part in the death and when people are put on the Liverpool Pathway that involves depriving patients of food and drink, a really cruel death would that not be a similar issue.    The patient has to be terminally ill with a prognosis of 6 months maximum, as I read it and the cause of death would be the illness I would say.    It will be a difficult one to define but I think it is worth the effort.

Both of my parent's died either at home or on admission to Hospice. I'd have done some nasty things to the doctor if they prescribed the 'Liverpool Pathway' and to those who administered it, a cruel cruel way to kill people!

The Courier has just landed on the doormat, stating that one third of the island's doctors are prepared to leave if assisted dying is introduced!

 

[Fred the shred]

Media hype I would say , no doctor would be forced to take part , surely it would be an opt in rather than an opt out format as with the histrionics of a lady on Mannin Line when the new take on donations of body parts was proposed, in that case it was changing opt in for opt out but to hear her going on anyone who was very ill  was fair game and they weren’t getting her body, no way.   It would have to be very carefully orchestrated and care taken to protect the vulnerable.   The point is no one that finds it distasteful or against their beliefs has to have anything to do with it they should just walk on by and let people who wish to control their passing with dignity crack on.

[2112]

28 minutes ago, Max Power said:

Both of my parent's died either at home or on admission to Hospice. I'd have done some nasty things to the doctor if they prescribed the 'Liverpool Pathway' and to those who administered it, a cruel cruel way to kill people!

The Courier has just landed on the doormat, stating that one third of the island's doctors are prepared to leave if assisted dying is introduced!

 

We will be stuck with the likes of Allinson. I’m all for freedom of choice, but sometimes decisions are foisted upon us, as other things are made inconvenient, and those who are ill and suffering are made to feel a nuisance. I’m sorry to say, that our uncaring political classes, whilst thinking they are caring types, I’m sure others will be looking at death tourism, financial benefits, and how the island could benefit, plus knowing IOMG, a cottage industry will spring up around this area. 

[Max Power]

6 minutes ago, 2112 said:

We will be stuck with the likes of Allinson. I’m all for freedom of choice, but sometimes decisions are foisted upon us, as other things are made inconvenient, and those who are ill and suffering are made to feel a nuisance. I’m sorry to say, that our uncaring political classes, whilst thinking they are caring types, I’m sure others will be looking at death tourism, financial benefits, and how the island could benefit, plus knowing IOMG, a cottage industry will spring up around this area. 

It may help IoM Post's fall in profits too as ashes are posted around the world?