CallMeCurious Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 I heard Allinson saying the bill for assisted dying will allow doctors to put the cause of death as the terminal illness the person had at the time when they had their assisted end and not "assisted death" as in it is in other jurisdictions. He said this being the way to ensure that life insurance policies will payout. Not sure how logical or ethical that is and is it not going to risk insurance companies putting in extra small print or withdrawing cover for the IOM for everyone? After all if "assisted death" is good enough for other jurisdictions then why not here too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-lane Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 I do not see how a doctor creating a lie on a death certificate will change things. The life insurance companies will see through that, and either pay or not pay as they see fit. Do other countries also allow doctors to sign death certificates in this way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Colombe Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 1 hour ago, CallMeCurious said: After all if "assisted death" is good enough for other jurisdictions then why not here too? What do you mean? Is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoops Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 It's almost as if he's making it up on the hoof...... 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlebushy Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 This is taken from GMC good medical practice..... As doctor, surely he is aware of this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh Mona Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 4 hours ago, CallMeCurious said: I heard Allinson saying the bill for assisted dying will allow doctors to put the cause of death as the terminal illness the person had at the time when they had their assisted end and not "assisted death" as in it is in other jurisdictions. He said this being the way to ensure that life insurance policies will payout. Not sure how logical or ethical that is and is it not going to risk insurance companies putting in extra small print or withdrawing cover for the IOM for everyone? After all if "assisted death" is good enough for other jurisdictions then why not here too? He carefully used the word ‘should’ not ‘will’ pay out! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barlow Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 (edited) There's gold in them thar wills. I wonder if there would be so many DNR certificates so willingly signed if it meant the signatory would forego any benefit from the soon to be deceased's estate? I appreciate this is a serious matter, but the point is not irrelevant. It's funny how the sight of a few bob will change attitudes towards an elderly (and wealthy) person. Presumably, the good doctor is well-versed in such matters. Edited September 14, 2023 by Barlow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 Insurance companies will always find a loophole. They also have the best lawyers. The good doctor is unconvincing - and he knows it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoops Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 8 minutes ago, Shake me up Judy said: Insurance companies will always find a loophole. They also have the best lawyers. The good doctor is unconvincing - and he knows it. It's not just a loophole, though. It's asking Doctors, some who don't agree with the legislation, to be economical with the truth. And it's asking insurance companies to act in a noble manner. It won't end well, no pun intended. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 1 hour ago, Hoops said: It's not just a loophole, though. It's asking Doctors, some who don't agree with the legislation, to be economical with the truth. And it's asking insurance companies to act in a noble manner. It won't end well, no pun intended. Do insurance policies still exclude suicide? Know of one person who committed suicide. The life policy didn't pay out, not because of the suicide, but because the mental health problem which sadly led to it was an undeclared pre-existing condition. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Colombe Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 6 minutes ago, Gladys said: Do insurance policies still exclude suicide? Not in all cases, but there are clauses. Which is fair enough really. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
code99 Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 9 hours ago, littlebushy said: This is taken from GMC good medical practice..... As doctor, surely he is aware of this. 13 hours ago, CallMeCurious said: I heard Allinson saying the bill for assisted dying will allow doctors to put the cause of death as the terminal illness the person had at the time when they had their assisted end and not "assisted death" as in it is in other jurisdictions. He said this being the way to ensure that life insurance policies will payout. Not sure how logical or ethical that is and is it not going to risk insurance companies putting in extra small print or withdrawing cover for the IOM for everyone? After all if "assisted death" is good enough for other jurisdictions then why not here too? 8 hours ago, Oh Mona said: He carefully used the word ‘should’ not ‘will’ pay out! Has the Government discussed/ agreed/ confirmed this proposal with life insurance companies? If not, the risks of having a Government policy to alter the cause of death (on death certificates) in order to persuade life insurance companies to pay out on what they would otherwise not pay out on are immense. It would put the IOM doctors in an impossible situation (if this is true, then it would tantamount to conducting systemic fraud), it would cause trauma for the families and it would undermine the Government’s reputation for ethical behaviour. Surely, this Government would not be that stupid…? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Colombe Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 I can't see the Isle of Man ever leading the UK on something as radical as assisted death. So it's all just chatter really. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 39 minutes ago, code99 said: Has the Government discussed/ agreed/ confirmed this proposal with life insurance companies? If not, the risks of having a Government policy to alter the cause of death (on death certificates) in order to persuade life insurance companies to pay out on what they would otherwise not pay out on are immense. It would put the IOM doctors in an impossible situation (if this is true, then it would tantamount to conducting systemic fraud), it would cause trauma for the families and it would undermine the Government’s reputation for ethical behaviour. Surely, this Government would not be that stupid…? The same could be said for anyone unfortunate enough to shuffle off their mortal coil in a hospice. After all, we all know that most deaths in a hospice result from an overdose of a lethal substance. I've witnessed this with my own eyes, to both of my parents and my eldest brother. In all three instances the death certificate shows the name of the cancer not the name of the substance that stopped their hearts from beating. So in essence all three doctors who pronounced their deaths lied. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
code99 Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 47 minutes ago, La Colombe said: I can't see the Isle of Man ever leading the UK on something as radical as assisted death. So it's all just chatter really. I agree with you. But, they do need to think these issues through just in case..."Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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