Allinson ~ assisted dying won't be the "cause of death" to get life insurance payouts

[Lilly]

2 minutes ago, Cambon said:

I am not sure I see a problem. A number of insurance companies pay out on notification of a terminal illness, prior to death. In which case assisted dying, and the death certificate would be virtually irrelevant. 

Yes, good point. 

[Kopek]

Surely it's unlikely that the general medical profession would be required to assist early dying? Most likely a separate group specifically involved in this procedure?

[Declan]

Peculiar response from Autism in Mann -

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/assisted-dying-legislation-vehemently-opposed-by-autism-charity/

 

Firstly, I do share their fear that assisted dying could be extended to people who are unable to advocate for themselves. However, that isn't in these proposals and if it was ever proposed we could challenge it. 

Secondly, the statement seems to be from the perspective of Parents of people with Autism. Can't Autists speak for themselves? Are their opinions different?

Edited October 24, 2023 by Declan

[Barlow]

I just think Allinson's face is inside out.

[Zarley]

4 minutes ago, Declan said:

Can't Autists advocate for themselves.

Some can't. Autism is on a spectrum, with some being very high functioning on one end, and some who are non-verbal and unable to live unassisted and unsupervised on the other end. My guess is that these parents are concerned about those on the non-verbal end of the spectrum. 

I had a cousin on the non-verbal end and I could easily see someone like him falling foul of assisted dying if there weren't strict protocols in place to prevent it being used by cost-cutting minded care home workers, for example. 

However it seems to me the protocols in this bill would stop things like this happening here. It will have to be carefully managed to keep it that way. 

[GD4ELI]

1 minute ago, Zarley said:

Some can't. Autism is on a spectrum, with some being very high functioning on one end, and some who are non-verbal and unable to live unassisted and unsupervised on the other end. My guess is that these parents are concerned about those on the non-verbal end of the spectrum. 

I had a cousin on the non-verbal end and I could easily see someone like him falling foul of assisted dying if there weren't strict protocols in place to prevent it being used by cost-cutting minded care home workers, for example. 

However it seems to me the protocols in this bill would stop things like this happening here. It will have to be carefully managed to keep it that way. 

There's no way whatsoever he would be able to use assisted dying.

[Two-lane]

There is some discussion in Canada about how far the legislation should go (this is from the Daily Mail, but there are other publications)

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-12651003/Canada-legalize-medically-assisted-dying-addicted-drugs.html

[Whether or not I am in favour of abortion or euthanasia is irrelevant - I get the impression that the driving force behind these things is Allinson's desire to have his photograph on the front cover of Time magazine - as the saviour of the universe. There are many other things he could be spending his time on.]

[Declan]

18 minutes ago, Zarley said:

Some can't.

I recognise that, however, my point was that this seemed to be an advocacy group speaking on behalf of parents. 

[Zarley]

28 minutes ago, GD4ELI said:

There's no way whatsoever he would be able to use assisted dying.

Well yeah, that was implied in the third paragraph. We'd have to be vigilant to keep it that way in practice. 

For the avoidance of doubt, I'm pro assisted dying under the terms of this bill, provided the terms are adhered to strictly. 

[Zarley]

17 minutes ago, Declan said:

I recognise that, however, my point was that this seemed to be an advocacy group speaking on behalf of parents. 

http://autisminmann.org/ is an organisation established and run by parents of autistic children, so they're speaking on behalf of their children, some of whom may be non-verbal. 

[WTF]

1 hour ago, Barlow said:

I just think Allinson's face is inside out.

how can you tell ??  it's still up his arse.

[Gladys]

2 hours ago, GD4ELI said:

There's no way whatsoever he would be able to use assisted dying.

The criteria include that the person is capable of making the informed decision themselves, and that they have certain  life limiting medical issues, such a terminal illness.  Pretty sure autism would not be one of those conditions.  Also, the person has to satisfy a medical practitioner (presumably appropriately qualified) that they meet the criteria before being assisted, surely?   

 

[Cueey Lewis And The News]

If that story on IOM Newspapers doesn’t convince any of the loonies objecting to this then nothing will. 

[wrighty]

5 minutes ago, Cueey Lewis And The News said:

If that story on IOM Newspapers doesn’t convince any of the loonies objecting to this then nothing will. 

Do you think referring to them as loonies will help convince them?

There are strong arguments on each side, predominantly autonomy vs coercion.  Personally I'm on the side of autonomy - I'd prefer to be able to make my own choice if mentally able, and to have left clear instructions to deal with a situation if I'm not, regarding a time to die.  And if it's good enough for me, it should be available to all.  Having said that, one of my colleagues almost convinced me that an assisted dying bill is not a good idea.  

Interested to see which way it goes.  I suspect though that whatever Tynwald say, Westminster won't allow us to bring in assisted dying legislation.

[Fred the shred]

I would be more concerned about Leg.Co. putting a spanner in the works especially as the new Bishop will probably be installed before the third reading.   The new Bishop who knows nothing about the Island and will get a say in important decisions, disgraceful , but that is only my opinion.