Roger Mexico Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 2 hours ago, piebaps said: But, Jordan and the others wouldn't have rang at all about BLM only for Stu's personal post on here where he chooses to use his own name. He makes it clear that his views are his own, but they chose to ring up his workplace to bait him about it. A PM on here would've been the most appropriate way forward for meaningful discussion or even engaging in the thread debate. The way they went ahead was despicable IMHO and they've definitely lost my support. And it's not like Stu ever voices his own opinions on his show Not for the first time Stu (that poor, confused pensioner) is being treated worse by his defenders than he ever has been by those who have been questioning his actions. Ringing him up at his workplace is literally his job. Are you saying that he should have no responsibility for what he says? That he is so senile that he is incapable of defending himself or remembering what he said? There seems a very flexible approach to responsibility going on here. One side seems to held responsible for everything ever said by everyone connected to BLM, no matter how remotely or long ago. The other side shouldn't be held responsible for stuff they personally wrote that afternoon. It may not be white privilege that is being demanded, but it's privilege none the less. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 45 minutes ago, Shake me up Judy said: There's absolutely nothing wrong with that argument either. A sex-change doesn't make a bloke a woman. He may wish it to - but that doesn't make it a fact. He may wish to become a table or a chair. Self-identification is no recommendation. Why? That reads just like you asserting a gut feeling or prejudice. Rowling's argument is more nuanced, I think, but I'm not grasping her meaning and that's why I asked what her point was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 21 minutes ago, P.K. said: So he wasn't suspended from his job due to a complaint that the Comms Commission ruled was unfounded? No he wasn't. As John Wright has patiently explained several times already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said: No he wasn't. As John Wright has patiently explained several times already. Then why was he suspended? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gettafa Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 (edited) Why was he suspended from his job? (post same time as PK. But the simple question has been asked and could do with a reply) Edited July 9, 2020 by gettafa 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 5 hours ago, Declan said: What is the point Rowling is trying to make, then? Because it does sound like she's denying a sex-change makes you a woman. It’s more about transgendered people who haven’t had any surgical intervention and self identify as women whilst still having male genitalia, and possibly no referral to a gender dysphoria clinic and no hormone treatment. She seems to be saying that female only spaces, like lavatories, or women’s refuge,aren’t safe if XY genetic humans use them. Its difficult, you can’t get gender reassignment surgery on the NHS without going through a long process, referral to a specialist clinic ( Portman Tavistock ) which takes ages, then two years of hormones, and dressing and passing, then surgery and a certificate. Where do you go to the loo, or to escape domestic violence, if you’re in the middle of that? Theres a position amongst some trans people that you are what you are, without hormones, without surgical intervention. I interpret her fears to be mainly about them. The trans women aren’t real women stance is more a Germaine Greer position. Rowlings seems a bit confused about TERF and where and why she stands on that. ( TERF = Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminism ) At least that’s my understanding. Read this and look at her fifth point. https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/ She raises other, very interesting points, especially about de transitioning and about the huge pendulum swing from the majority of transitions 20 years ago being MtF to now where it’s FtM in the substantial majority. And from my reading most FtM do not have lower surgery. Just top surgery. And whilst I’m posting, ( possibly for the last time in this topic because the entrenched positions are just too far apart and the reactions are knee jerk ) it’s worth pointing out the repeated insensitivity, in 2020, of the use of the term “sex change”. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 50 minutes ago, Declan said: Who are you quoting there? Hitchens and a Chinese commentor, Xin Du. What d'you think..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 You insensitive beast Declan... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 26 minutes ago, John Wright said: And whilst I’m posting, ( possibly for the last time in this topic because the entrenched positions are just too far apart and the reactions are knee jerk ) it’s worth pointing out the repeated insensitivity, in 2020, of the use of the term “sex change”. @John Wright Fair enough but I hope you will answer this question for me. Because I know what I would do... IIRC Mr Maguire's BLM speech took place before the Communication Commission's findings. In that speech Mr Maguire said some very disparaging things about Mr Peters and made them very publicly as well. So does Mr Peters have good grounds to sue Mr Maguire for defamation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 I hope Stu doesn't start upsetting the Trans people. That wouldn't be pretty... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 59 minutes ago, John Wright said: And whilst I’m posting, ( possibly for the last time in this topic because the entrenched positions are just too far apart and the reactions are knee jerk ) it’s worth pointing out the repeated insensitivity, in 2020, of the use of the term “sex change”. Thanks for pointing this out (not to mention the rest of the explanation). What is the better term? Gender re-alignment operation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 58 minutes ago, quilp said: Hitchens and a Chinese commentor, Xin Du. What d'you think..? I think it's very hard to tell when Hitchens is speaking or being paraphrased. Or whether either party is being taken out of context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 What's wrong with the term sex change? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 33 minutes ago, P.K. said: @John Wright Fair enough but I hope you will answer this question for me. Because I know what I would do... IIRC Mr Maguire's BLM speech took place before the Communication Commission's findings. In that speech Mr Maguire said some very disparaging things about Mr Peters and made them very publicly as well. So does Mr Peters have good grounds to sue Mr Maguire for defamation? If Mr Peters wishes to avail himself of legal advice I can point him in the way of several very good and expensive advocates. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 Just now, TheTeapot said: What's wrong with the term sex change? I think because they aren't changing sex merely re-aligning to the one they should have had all along. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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