Stu Peters Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Over to you Stu..... Who, me? What happened? Where? What day is it now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Peters Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 The figure I found interesting/alarming, take your pick, is on page 6 where is state’s salaries & wages increased by £15.2 million. That is just under 4%. My favourite most alarming figure is the head count of 7,874 meaning we pay and AVERAGE of £50,520 per full time post: "The total personnel employed by Government Departments, including seasonal staff and Statutory Boards, is the equivalent of 7,874 full-time posts including contract posts." https://www.gov.im/news/2015/feb/17/isle-of-man-government-finances-for-2015-16/ I'm no expert in these matters, but if the PS pensions total liability is £3.03bn, doesn't that average at almost £385,000 per pensioner. Given that lots won't ever have a full entitlement/length of qualifying service and the vast majority allegedly earn less than £35k pa, that seems an astounding amount of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 You'd never dream there had been a pay freeze on would you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesultanofsheight Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 The figure I found interesting/alarming, take your pick, is on page 6 where is states salaries & wages increased by £15.2 million. That is just under 4%. My favourite most alarming figure is the head count of 7,874 meaning we pay and AVERAGE of £50,520 per full time post:"The total personnel employed by Government Departments, including seasonal staff and Statutory Boards, is the equivalent of 7,874 full-time posts including contract posts."https://www.gov.im/news/2015/feb/17/isle-of-man-government-finances-for-2015-16/ I'm no expert in these matters, but if the PS pensions total liability is £3.03bn, doesn't that average at almost £385,000 per pensioner. Given that lots won't ever have a full entitlement/length of qualifying service and the vast majority allegedly earn less than £35k pa, that seems an astounding amount of money. Hardly unsurprising when a pension of £20,000 for someone aged 65 costs between £500-600,000 to buy. http://www.sharingpensions.com/annuity_rates.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxy Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I thought so too. I wonder if the numbers earning under £50k have actually declined seeing as we are always being told that numbers employed in total are down. This would indeed reinforce the perception of "too many chiefs". Exactly and the reason why I would like to know the details with the rest of whats not shown. People should ask the question of how many people earn any of the following and compare year 2008 and 2015 as seen earlier. This should show how many lower level people have fared compared to those earning over £50k. (Full or part time would be interesting too) 40,000 to 49,999 30,000 to 39,999 20,000 to 29,999 10,000 to 19,999 0 to 9,999 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uhtred Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Just out of interest, what is the consensus:1. That our MHKs are just the puppets of our corrupt Civil Servants?2. Or that our Civil Servants are just carrying out the evil work of their greedy overlords?It seems to switch depending on who people are defending on that day.(Edit for speeling) This is a genuinely fascinating question. When one looks at (and listens to) the emphatic, self-confident, pompous, certain-of-their-own-infallibility pronouncements of, for example, Bell, Teare, Quayle and Skelly, it seems to stretch credulity that, behind closed doors, they suddenly become compliant, uncomplaining puppets of senior civil servants. Take Teare for example; the way in which he hectors, lectures and speaks down to others in Tynwald illustrates someone who seems highly unlikely to suddenly roll over and follow the diktat of Treasury mandarins. Or Quayle; thick, undoubtedly, but compliant...? I very much doubt it. Bell is the same. He has an answer for everything, guru that he is. He's not going to sing to a tune he didn't write himself. Some of the thick grunts like Quirkio and Cregeen (and now Joughin) can probably be manoevered by civil servants who have more brain cells but even then I'll bet it's not with the politicians agreement, just sleight of hand. The available evidence points to zealous, over-confident politicians with no conception of their own limitations, not some shadowy civil service cabal who've mastered the art of mass hypnosis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugger Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I'm not so sure of this theory, Uhtred. They know the quality of what they face in the Keys (and also the ability of their opponents to press them into a corner on stuff under the house rules). Even Quayle would fancy his chances of not being intellectually outgunned. The civil servants, however, aren't bound by HoK etiquette and have all the data at their fingertips. Their surivial skills will equip them with at least some vestigial knowledge of their limitations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesultanofsheight Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Just out of interest, what is the consensus:1. That our MHKs are just the puppets of our corrupt Civil Servants?2. Or that our Civil Servants are just carrying out the evil work of their greedy overlords?It seems to switch depending on who people are defending on that day.(Edit for speeling) This is a genuinely fascinating question. When one looks at (and listens to) the emphatic, self-confident, pompous, certain-of-their-own-infallibility pronouncements of, for example, Bell, Teare, Quayle and Skelly, it seems to stretch credulity that, behind closed doors, they suddenly become compliant, uncomplaining puppets of senior civil servants. Take Teare for example; the way in which he hectors, lectures and speaks down to others in Tynwald illustrates someone who seems highly unlikely to suddenly roll over and follow the diktat of Treasury mandarins. Or Quayle; thick, undoubtedly, but compliant...? I very much doubt it. Bell is the same. He has an answer for everything, guru that he is. He's not going to sing to a tune he didn't write himself. Some of the thick grunts like Quirkio and Cregeen (and now Joughin) can probably be manoevered by civil servants who have more brain cells but even then I'll bet it's not with the politicians agreement, just sleight of hand. The available evidence points to zealous, over-confident politicians with no conception of their own limitations, not some shadowy civil service cabal who've mastered the art of mass hypnosis. So says the shadowy civil servant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I'm not so sure of this theory, Uhtred. They know the quality of what they face in the Keys (and also the ability of their opponents to press them into a corner on stuff under the house rules). Even Quayle would fancy his chances of not being intellectually outgunned. The civil servants, however, aren't bound by HoK etiquette and have all the data at their fingertips. Their surivial skills will equip them with at least some vestigial knowledge of their limitations You mean like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uhtred Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Just out of interest, what is the consensus:1. That our MHKs are just the puppets of our corrupt Civil Servants?2. Or that our Civil Servants are just carrying out the evil work of their greedy overlords?It seems to switch depending on who people are defending on that day.(Edit for speeling)This is a genuinely fascinating question. When one looks at (and listens to) the emphatic, self-confident, pompous, certain-of-their-own-infallibility pronouncements of, for example, Bell, Teare, Quayle and Skelly, it seems to stretch credulity that, behind closed doors, they suddenly become compliant, uncomplaining puppets of senior civil servants. Take Teare for example; the way in which he hectors, lectures and speaks down to others in Tynwald illustrates someone who seems highly unlikely to suddenly roll over and follow the diktat of Treasury mandarins. Or Quayle; thick, undoubtedly, but compliant...? I very much doubt it. Bell is the same. He has an answer for everything, guru that he is. He's not going to sing to a tune he didn't write himself. Some of the thick grunts like Quirkio and Cregeen (and now Joughin) can probably be manoevered by civil servants who have more brain cells but even then I'll bet it's not with the politicians agreement, just sleight of hand. The available evidence points to zealous, over-confident politicians with no conception of their own limitations, not some shadowy civil service cabal who've mastered the art of mass hypnosis.So says the shadowy civil servant. I'd get that paranoia looked at if I were you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Shoe Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Just out of interest, what is the consensus:1. That our MHKs are just the puppets of our corrupt Civil Servants?2. Or that our Civil Servants are just carrying out the evil work of their greedy overlords?It seems to switch depending on who people are defending on that day.(Edit for speeling) This is a genuinely fascinating question. When one looks at (and listens to) the emphatic, self-confident, pompous, certain-of-their-own-infallibility pronouncements of, for example, Bell, Teare, Quayle and Skelly, it seems to stretch credulity that, behind closed doors, they suddenly become compliant, uncomplaining puppets of senior civil servants. Take Teare for example; the way in which he hectors, lectures and speaks down to others in Tynwald illustrates someone who seems highly unlikely to suddenly roll over and follow the diktat of Treasury mandarins. Or Quayle; thick, undoubtedly, but compliant...? I very much doubt it. Bell is the same. He has an answer for everything, guru that he is. He's not going to sing to a tune he didn't write himself. Some of the thick grunts like Quirkio and Cregeen (and now Joughin) can probably be manoevered by civil servants who have more brain cells but even then I'll bet it's not with the politicians agreement, just sleight of hand. The available evidence points to zealous, over-confident politicians with no conception of their own limitations, not some shadowy civil service cabal who've mastered the art of mass hypnosis. I lean more in that direction. Hence why I blame Bell/Teare more than Shimmin/Couch for our financial situation. Although the greedy (senior) civil servants continually try to manipulate the (mostly) idiotic MHKs to carry out their wishes, many of the MHKs are terrible bullies behind the scenes and their word is (both figuratively and literally) law. For a senior CS to go against an MHK he would require the backing of another MHK. If they can be arsed. This is politics. However, I'm sure having our economy managed for a decade by a hat seller and a guy with a BA in Humanities will leave us on a sound financial footing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempus Fugit Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I thought so too. I wonder if the numbers earning under £50k have actually declined seeing as we are always being told that numbers employed in total are down. This would indeed reinforce the perception of "too many chiefs". Exactly and the reason why I would like to know the details with the rest of whats not shown. People should ask the question of how many people earn any of the following and compare year 2008 and 2015 as seen earlier. This should show how many lower level people have fared compared to those earning over £50k. (Full or part time would be interesting too) 40,000 to 49,999 30,000 to 39,999 20,000 to 29,999 10,000 to 19,999 0 to 9,999 they'll be all the ones who do the work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Trumps Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Trumps Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Why should the 'government' of a tiny island in the middle of the Irish Sea spend £412m+ per annum on payroll costs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Why should the 'government' of a tiny island in the middle of the Irish Sea spend £412m+ per annum on payroll costs? Because @ 30% of the population are employed by or take from said government in one way or another....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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