Alf Cannan's I Have A Dream

[John Wright]

Just now, Moghrey Mie said:

Sorry 

No worries. And Nurses Home to bus station is 12-13 minutes, so still within 15 minute village aspiration

[Kopek]

It'l never remain as a 10min walk area, perhaps a 10 min walk to parking!!!!

[Mercenary]

4 hours ago, John Wright said:

Yes, but it’s 2 minutes from the nearest big shop, 10 minutes from the business working area, half a dozen pubs and restaurants within 5 minutes, main shopping area 10 mins, sea terminal 10 mins. Douglas beach, 10 mins. And whilst we don’t have a tube system we have a cheap and frequent bus service, to most of the Island, all centred on the bus terminal, about 7 mins away. 

You’re right. You won’t get to Blue Point, the Ronague Treacle Mines and other remoter places without a taxi or hike from the closest point on the transport network. But many younger people aren’t learning to drive, and owning a car isn’t high on their priority list.

It’s a generational thing. It suits them. It’s not aimed at you. Let it go.

Also there are key differences between the Westmoreland and the Lake Road developments. Westmoreland is targeted at area regeneration (and key worker housing), and therefore return on investment is not the main consideration and it is up to MDC/IOMG in terms of what they deem a viable minimum return. Lake Road is a commercial development, with the developer's money at risk (albeit with a topup from Gov on completion). Therefore they are only going to build what they believe they can sell and what there is a market for. A car parking space is probably worth an additional £30k on the flat price but they obviously believe the development is commercially viable without full levels of parking.

[Albert Tatlock]

All fly shit compared to what's actually needed here.

[Kopek]

Dandara seem to be happy to build on a riverbank! Must have something in mind?

[The Voice of Reason]

4 hours ago, John Wright said:Yes, but it’s 2 minutes from the nearest big shop, 10 minutes from the business working area, half a dozen pubs and restaurants within 5 minutes, main shopping area 10 mins, sea terminal 10 mins. Douglas beach, 10 mins. And whilst we don’t have a tube system we have a cheap and frequent bus service, to most of the Island, all centred on the bus terminal, about 7 mins away. 

You’re right. You won’t get to Blue Point, the Ronague Treacle Mines and other remoter places without a taxi or hike from the closest point on the transport network. But many younger people aren’t learning to drive, and owning a car isn’t high on their priority list.

It’s a generational thing. It suits them. It’s not aimed at you. Let it go.

I’m sorry but however good your bus services, however near local facilities are, people will always want the freedom that a car gives.

I have lived in places with all the infrastructure in place to make getting about without a car relatively easy but people want their cars.
However brilliant public transport is you are not going to better being able to leave your front door, walk a few yards to your car, get in it, without having to share with other people and drive to right outside the place you want to be. It’s just human nature.

When I worked in Douglas, living in Ramsey and could get a bus almost door to door from home to office and return I thought well why not do it. It would be cheaper ( no parking fees etc).

I would take the bus for the first three mornings in the week but by Thursday would think “ Sod it I am going in the car, it will cost me more but will save say ten minutes off my journey time and I can listen to the radio or music that I like.  ( I know that you can put your headphones on and listen to stuff on the bus but I don’t like to do that, I find it a little embarrassing )

Then a few weeks later I would again think that I should take the bus and I would do until the Thursday ( maybe sometimes the Wednesday) until I succumbed to the car and the cycle would repeat itself.

And I don’t think it’s a generational thing. When I do use the bus I find most on it are of a similar ( older age) as myself

 

[Two-lane]

Are there planning rules or guidelines for parking spaces per flat?

[Moghrey Mie]

26 minutes ago, Two-lane said:

Are there planning rules or guidelines for parking spaces per flat?

Yes And 25% affordable unless they have Section 13 Agreement not to do it.

'Housing Policy 5: In granting planning permission on land zoned for residential development or in predominantly residential areas the Department will normally require that 25% of provision should be made up of affordable housing. This policy will apply to developments of 8 dwellings or more.'

Edited March 28 by Moghrey Mie

[John Wright]

25 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

I’m sorry but however good your bus services, however near local facilities are, people will always want the freedom that a car gives.

I have lived in places with all the infrastructure in place to make getting about without a car relatively easy but people want their cars.
However brilliant public transport is you are not going to better being able to leave your front door, walk a few yards to your car, get in it, without having to share with other people and drive to right outside the place you want to be. It’s just human nature.

When I worked in Douglas, living in Ramsey and could get a bus almost door to door from home to office and return I thought well why not do it. It would be cheaper ( no parking fees etc).

I would take the bus for the first three mornings in the week but by Thursday would think “ Sod it I am going in the car, it will cost me more but will save say ten minutes off my journey time and I can listen to the radio or music that I like.  ( I know that you can put your headphones on and listen to stuff on the bus but I don’t like to do that, I find it a little embarrassing )

Then a few weeks later I would again think that I should take the bus and I would do until the Thursday ( maybe sometimes the Wednesday) until I succumbed to the car and the cycle would repeat itself.

And I don’t think it’s a generational thing. When I do use the bus I find most on it are of a similar ( older age) as myself

 

Why am I not surprised that you’ve completely missed the point?.

The people who might live in the Lake Road Development, the Lord Street flats, if they’re ever developed, and the Westmoreland Road development are likely to be younger, single, key workers, passing through. 

They won’t need to own a car, or use a bus, to get to work, shop, and go out. It’s a totally different demographic than you and I, who represent peak car. They can rent, if they need. It’s a trend across the big cities, especially in the centres. Children and grandchildren of friends and family, here and across, are increasingly not even bothering to learn to drive and, even if they do, definitely not owning cars.

Within a decade we will have Uber. We may have electric driverless cars for use by the hour. 

For many, over a working life, a car with capital cost, depreciation, lost interest, tax, maintenance and servicing, insurance, will far exceed the cost of rent or a mortgage.

Developers, MDC or private, wouldn’t build if there weren’t a market demand.

[John Wright]

30 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

When I worked in Douglas, living in Ramsey

Totally different set of parameters.

[woolley]

3 hours ago, John Wright said:

This subsection of the thread is about the Dandara planning on Lake Road.

Blimey. I thought he was odds on for the withering sarcastic putdown there. Instead, just factual clarification. Things are looking up.

[woolley]

3 hours ago, Moghrey Mie said:

Sorry 

 

3 hours ago, John Wright said:

No worries.

Good gracious.

[woolley]

58 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

I’m sorry but however good your bus services, however near local facilities are, people will always want the freedom that a car gives.

I have lived in places with all the infrastructure in place to make getting about without a car relatively easy but people want their cars.
However brilliant public transport is you are not going to better being able to leave your front door, walk a few yards to your car, get in it, without having to share with other people and drive to right outside the place you want to be. It’s just human nature.

When I worked in Douglas, living in Ramsey and could get a bus almost door to door from home to office and return I thought well why not do it. It would be cheaper ( no parking fees etc).

I would take the bus for the first three mornings in the week but by Thursday would think “ Sod it I am going in the car, it will cost me more but will save say ten minutes off my journey time and I can listen to the radio or music that I like.  ( I know that you can put your headphones on and listen to stuff on the bus but I don’t like to do that, I find it a little embarrassing )

Then a few weeks later I would again think that I should take the bus and I would do until the Thursday ( maybe sometimes the Wednesday) until I succumbed to the car and the cycle would repeat itself.

And I don’t think it’s a generational thing. When I do use the bus I find most on it are of a similar ( older age) as myself

 

I agree in principle, but it is a generational thing. Maybe not by choice because lots of younger people just don't have the means to run a car.

[woolley]

36 minutes ago, John Wright said:

Why am I not surprised that you’ve completely missed the point?.

Ah. The world is safely back on its axis.

[woolley]

39 minutes ago, John Wright said:

Why am I not surprised that you’ve completely missed the point?.

The people who might live in the Lake Road Development, the Lord Street flats, if they’re ever developed, and the Westmoreland Road development are likely to be younger, single, key workers, passing through. 

They won’t need to own a car, or use a bus, to get to work, shop, and go out. It’s a totally different demographic than you and I, who represent peak car. They can rent, if they need. It’s a trend across the big cities, especially in the centres. Children and grandchildren of friends and family, here and across, are increasingly not even bothering to learn to drive and, even if they do, definitely not owning cars.

Within a decade we will have Uber. We may have electric driverless cars for use by the hour. 

For many, over a working life, a car with capital cost, depreciation, lost interest, tax, maintenance and servicing, insurance, will far exceed the cost of rent or a mortgage.

Developers, MDC or private, wouldn’t build if there weren’t a market demand.

All true, but I do think it's driven by simple lack of cash. They don't learn to drive because there's no point if they can't afford a car. Just like many live at the parental home for far longer than we did, not because they don't want their freedom but because they simply don't have the wherewithal for a different choice.