IOM Covid removing restrictions

[littlebushy]

On 12/5/2023 at 7:43 AM, Major Rushen said:

Did Dr Magson always work from home (UK) during her employment?

No but Ashford was confident that this was the way forward....

 

Ms Magson, who has 12 years of experience in NHS senior management, is on a secondment from her current role as chief executive at NHS Herts Valleys Clinical Commissioning Group.

But although her post here is a full-time one, she will continue to divide her time between the island and the UK.

 

Mr Ashford confirmed: ’She will be working full time as chief executive officer but will be based on-island for a minimum of three days a week with the rest of the week being done via remote working.’

Responding to questioning in Tynwald in October about Ms Magson’s proposed weekly commute, the Health Minister said: ’We are living in 2019, not 1919.

’People do work and can work remotely.

’If you have to have a chief executive physically here - physically present, sat in an office five days a week - then there is something fundamentally wrong if they have to micromanage to that extent the department.’

[John Wright]

2 hours ago, ricardo said:

Whether I am one or not, I shan’t continue along the ‘idiocy’ route - we are all entitled to make the choices we see fit. Currently anyway. I am deeply sorry you have the health issues you do and hope you continue to live a rich, and hopefully long life.

Thank you for your good wishes.

2 hours ago, ricardo said:

The journey you’ve describe sounds like a challenging adventure - as uncomfortable as it may have been it was surely better than being isolated at home? I myself travelled almost the length and breadth of Europe during 2020, mostly without incident, unvaxxed, but with nauseatingly regular nose swabs - a disgusting invasion of bodily autonomy. And for a test that gave virtually meaningless results (it’s inventor was vocal about it not being suitable for such use).

It was more a case of not wanting to be stuck in Bulgaria or Spain and being unable to return home for an unknown period.

The inventor ( Mollis ) of the amplification and detection process ( PCR tests ) didn’t say it was unsuitable, at all. Thats a conspiracy theorist lie.

what it is claimed he said was

“Anyone can test positive for practically anything with a PCR test, if you run it long enough with PCR if you do it well, you can find almost anything in anybody. It doesn’t tell you that you’re sick.”

There is no record of him ever saying that.

What he did say, at an HIV/AIDS conference in 1997 was 

 “And with PCR, if you do it well, you can find almost anything in anybody.”

You have to take into account three things.

1. he was a denialist that HIV caused AIDS in those days ( He subsequently recanted and accepted that it does )

2. That was 23 years before the tests were used for covid. They’re were very specifically engineered to detect covid antigens.

3. he died in 2019 - before PCR was used for covid testing.

 

2 hours ago, ricardo said:

Am unsure which ‘tosh’ you refer to?

All your stuff about the dangers of the vaccines, reg motivation behind the pass, the uptick in certain diseases post vaccination. They’re all conspiracy theory lies with no basis in fact or science.

2 hours ago, ricardo said:

It is surely factual that the appalling - my judgement - supposed vaccines were rushed to market, without undergoing the lengthy clinical trials program that such novel drugs are normally subjected to? (the ‘fast track’ story was ‘tosh’ though - side effects that take time to appear can only be revealed by the passage of time, which is why clinical trials take so long - time obviously cannot be ‘fast tracked’)

Thing is that vaccine development has moved on. The techniques involved in genetic engineering, now widely in use, has allowed safer development and introduction. Lucky it has. And now we’ve had the covid vax experience it’ll enable better vaxs and faster introduction.

Things like flu vax are in continuous development and change every year, without extensive testing, this is because flu virus changes so quickly.

The vaccines generally consist of a delivery base and a genetically engineered inert part that prompted the body’s immune system to develop an immune response.

2 hours ago, ricardo said:

It is also factual that there are now large ‘spikes’ in various cancers and heart diseases, which many doctors will privately say are almost certainly linked to the vaccine roll-out, although few will say so publicly. But whatever they say the stats. speak for themselves - take a look if you doubt this.

You’re doing the usual conspiracy theorist thing of confusing proximity in time and location and exposure with causality. There is no peer reviewed scientifically published research that backs up what you say. There are so many other things that could result in spikes, which are much more likely. Things like isolation, unavailability of normal medical services, actual Covid infection. Always look at the obvious causal links, and eliminate them first,  rather than the least likely. The obvious haven’t been eliminated.

2 hours ago, ricardo said:

Perhaps you are referring to the digital ID program? Neither driving licenses nor passports are currently digital - the proposed ‘vaccine pass’ is. It is fact that the UK govt was pushing hard to introduce this. As were many others. They only stopped when backbench MP’s objected, but it is far from off the agenda. Many UK and EU MP’s/MEP’s have flagged-up the dangers within such a system, for exactly the reasons I highlight above.

You are so wrong. Biometric digital passports were introduced across the EU in 1998. The hologram photo. Full biometric digital passports with a chip with all your info on, have been te only ones issued since 2008.

As for driving licences, the photo, even on a Manx photocard, can be used by banks to enable confirmation of ID to open on line banking via their app. And Spain, Iceland, Denmark, Norway already have digital driving licences that you upload onto your phone. Several USA states, likewise. Korea and Mexico.

there is a standard EU protocol for these. At present you can only use in country of issue, but by end 2024 the system is planned to go EU wide.

Then there’s the US and other visa waiver schemes, and ETIAS which will be in by 2025.

2 hours ago, ricardo said:

I still do not believe a man as intelligent and well-informed as yourself is unaware of this. Or of the dangers.

I’m really aware. More away than you, apparently. I’m ultra aware of the dangers, and the advantages, so I concentrate on data security rather than pointless conspiracy theory driven unreality.

Of course I don’t have much confidence in the Manx or UK governments to set it up and administer it properly. You’ve only got to look at the track & trace debacle.

2 hours ago, ricardo said:

You also know that most European police are armed - your phraseology did give a nice touch of drama though.

Except, it wasn’t the Mossos or Bulgarian police enforcing with hand guns. It was security and special military and border police, with sub machines guns. No one allowed in or out.

[Johnny F]

I doff my cap to you Mr Wright for having the patience to take the time to carefully respond to and demolish Ricardo's statements. However you and I both know that it won't end here, he, along with countless others will be back on blethering gibberish and faux science.

It's this constant ranting by lunatics which keep me off this forum. I love some of the debates and chats that the intelligent posters have on here but the conspiracy theorists simply boil my p**s

[John Wright]

20 minutes ago, Johnny F said:

I doff my cap to you Mr Wright for having the patience to take the time to carefully respond to and demolish Ricardo's statements. However you and I both know that it won't end here, he, along with countless others will be back on blethering gibberish and faux science.

It's this constant ranting by lunatics which keep me off this forum. I love some of the debates and chats that the intelligent posters have on here but the conspiracy theorists simply boil my p**s

There you have it. MF is the greatest source of heat in the universe. It boils piss.

[ricardo]

12 hours ago, John Wright said:

Thank you for your good wishes.

It was more a case of not wanting to be stuck in Bulgaria or Spain and being unable to return home for an unknown period.

The inventor ( Mollis ) of the amplification and detection process ( PCR tests ) didn’t say it was unsuitable, at all. Thats a conspiracy theorist lie.

what it is claimed he said was

“Anyone can test positive for practically anything with a PCR test, if you run it long enough with PCR if you do it well, you can find almost anything in anybody. It doesn’t tell you that you’re sick.”

There is no record of him ever saying that.

What he did say, at an HIV/AIDS conference in 1997 was 

 “And with PCR, if you do it well, you can find almost anything in anybody.”

You have to take into account three things.

1. he was a denialist that HIV caused AIDS in those days ( He subsequently recanted and accepted that it does )

2. That was 23 years before the tests were used for covid. They’re were very specifically engineered to detect covid antigens.

3. he died in 2019 - before PCR was used for covid testing.

 

All your stuff about the dangers of the vaccines, reg motivation behind the pass, the uptick in certain diseases post vaccination. They’re all conspiracy theory lies with no basis in fact or science.

Thing is that vaccine development has moved on. The techniques involved in genetic engineering, now widely in use, has allowed safer development and introduction. Lucky it has. And now we’ve had the covid vax experience it’ll enable better vaxs and faster introduction.

Things like flu vax are in continuous development and change every year, without extensive testing, this is because flu virus changes so quickly.

The vaccines generally consist of a delivery base and a genetically engineered inert part that prompted the body’s immune system to develop an immune response.

You’re doing the usual conspiracy theorist thing of confusing proximity in time and location and exposure with causality. There is no peer reviewed scientifically published research that backs up what you say. There are so many other things that could result in spikes, which are much more likely. Things like isolation, unavailability of normal medical services, actual Covid infection. Always look at the obvious causal links, and eliminate them first,  rather than the least likely. The obvious haven’t been eliminated.

You are so wrong. Biometric digital passports were introduced across the EU in 1998. The hologram photo. Full biometric digital passports with a chip with all your info on, have been te only ones issued since 2008.

As for driving licences, the photo, even on a Manx photocard, can be used by banks to enable confirmation of ID to open on line banking via their app. And Spain, Iceland, Denmark, Norway already have digital driving licences that you upload onto your phone. Several USA states, likewise. Korea and Mexico.

there is a standard EU protocol for these. At present you can only use in country of issue, but by end 2024 the system is planned to go EU wide.

Then there’s the US and other visa waiver schemes, and ETIAS which will be in by 2025.

I’m really aware. More away than you, apparently. I’m ultra aware of the dangers, and the advantages, so I concentrate on data security rather than pointless conspiracy theory driven unreality.

Of course I don’t have much confidence in the Manx or UK governments to set it up and administer it properly. You’ve only got to look at the track & trace debacle.

Except, it wasn’t the Mossos or Bulgarian police enforcing with hand guns. It was security and special military and border police, with sub machines guns. No one allowed in or out.

I genuinely wish you well.

I acknowledge UK passports now carry a digital chip. The chip is designed to carry the name of the holder and photo information. There is no requirement for UK citizens to hold a passport. It is politically unfeasible to force British citizens to carry one for ID purposes. The proposed digital ‘vaccine passport’ is a whole different kettle of fish. Which is why a raft of MP’s have objected to it. They know where that will end. As do you.

 

I am curious why you feel the need to make lengthy arguments in favour of dubious vaccines and dodgy ID proposals, which is why I used the term ‘shill’. What is compelling you to support these? If you, or anyone interested enough, choose to read about the history of vaccine programs you will quickly find some grotesque facts. They are not as purported by the deeply dodgy pharma industry. This information is so readily available one must wonder why you go on ad nauseum supporting that equally grotesque industry. I encourage anyone contemplating ‘flu shots this Winter to do a little research before doing so.

 

You love to bandy around the phrase ‘conspiracy theory’. There are conspiracies - it is legitimate to speculate about what they may be. Ideally intelligently. Approximately 50% of US citizens believed their own government had a hand in the assassination of JFK in 1963 - a statistic that is unchanged today. The reason over 100 million people believe this is not because they are dim-witted or committed to fantastical ‘conspiracy theories’ but because the evidence points to CIA involvement. I have little doubt you are aware it was they who coined the phrase, in their attempt to discredit speculation about their appalling activities.

 

There IS a plan to introduce digital ID’s - that is not a ‘theory’. The speculation is about where that plan may take our society. Governments do not have a good track record in that respect.

 

Neither am I theorizing about what Dr Kary Mullis, inventor of the PCR test said either - his almost exact words are below, as more or less confirmed by the dubious ‘Full fact’ Organisation. Your suggestion that his painstakingly created, and Nobel prize-winning, PCR test being ‘re-configured’ to test for ‘covid’ is, I’m afraid, utter bollocks. Or ‘tosh’ even.

 

Neither am I theorizing, ‘conflating’ or speculating about the so called ‘turbo cancers’ or surge in heart diseases that are now appearing. Many brave doctors are defying the nonsense ‘safe and effective’ mantra and testifying at various tribunals around the globe that the primary ‘suspect’ is the vaccination program. It is surely obvious that if one injects novel substances into oneself there will be consequences? We are yet to find out exactly what these are. The current situation is not far removed from the historical argument that there was no proof smoking caused cancer. It was always equally obvious that inhaling smoke into one’s lungs was never going to end well. The covid vaccine story will not end well either.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 7, 2023 by ricardo

[piebaps]

48 minutes ago, Johnny F said:

 However you and I both know that it won't end here, he, along with countless others will be back on blethering gibberish and faux science.

Do you have Friday's Euromillions numbers by any chance?🤣

[The Voice of Reason]

3 hours ago, John Wright said:

You are a much bigger idiot than even VoR if you believe this tosh.

Yes, I had 3 primary doses and I’ve had 5 boosters. Im immunocompromised following leukaemia and experimental chemo. I live life to the full and travel. I wasn’t willing to stay at home, isolated, any longer than necessary. In fact I travelled as soon as travel was allowed, with testing, and then, got to vax and pass, and kept them valid.

 

Not quite sure how  my name is getting dragged into this! But that’s just JW I guess.

I have had all four Covid vaccines offered to me. No side effects, all good.

 

 

[ricardo]

10 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Not quite sure how  my name is getting dragged into this! But that’s just JW I guess.

I have had all four Covid vaccines offered to me. No side effects, all good.

 

 

As you say, our resident expert on everything does like to ‘bandy’. I enjoy your contributions! 😊

[Cueey Lewis And The News]

11 hours ago, ricardo said:

I genuinely wish you well.

I covid’ is, I’m afraid, utter bollocks. Or ‘tosh’ even.

Why do you lot just cut and paste great slabs of this shite off the internet and think anyone who is not an anti vaxxing loon is going to read any of it? 

Edited December 7, 2023 by Cueey Lewis And The News

[ricardo]

2 hours ago, Cueey Lewis And The News said:

Why do you lot just cut and paste great slabs of this shite off the internet and think anyone who is not an anti vaxxing loon is going to read any of it? 

I wonder if you have ever taken a good look in the mirror? A recent poster commented that they felt ‘sorry for your family’ - they were not referring to transportation.

It is actually you who has cut & pasted, and distorted what I said in doing so. What I said was:

“Your suggestion that his painstakingly created, and Nobel prize-winning, PCR test being ‘re-configured’ to test for ‘covid’ is, I’m afraid, utter bollocks. Or ‘tosh’ even.”

It is surely clear that the prize-winning Dr Mullis would know more about the test he created than anyone else. The use of the PCR test to detect covid was nonsense, as all governments knew full well.

[AcousticallyChallenged]

15 hours ago, ricardo said:

I acknowledge UK passports now carry a digital chip. The chip is designed to carry the name of the holder and photo information. There is no requirement for UK citizens to hold a passport. It is politically unfeasible to force British citizens to carry one for ID purposes. The proposed digital ‘vaccine passport’ is a whole different kettle of fish. Which is why a raft of MP’s have objected to it. They know where that will end. As do you.

Do you have a smartphone? If so, you have a device covered in recording and monitoring ability, that, by its very existence and design, reports that back to a central location periodically. You can turn your data off, but it'll still happily chirp to let the tower know where to find it. Generally, they're filled with data harvesting tools, simply to be able to sell you things.

Never mind how much data your browser gives off when you visit a website. The Electronic Frontier Foundation have a handy little tool here to show you how many data points: https://coveryourtracks.eff.org/ Even TOR users can be found if they're interesting enough. One of the drivers behind this, again, is advertising.

The chip in the passports is very similar to the one in your bank card. It carries some data, including a copy of what's on the passport, and a digital signature, some of which you can read with the average smartphone. This isn't really some huge surprise.

Remember also that facial recognition tech already exists and can be used to great effect too. As technology improves, it gets ever cheaper and easier. The Met Police have been trialling it over the years, for example.

Also, remember what Snowden pointed out, the mass collection of citizens data on an enormous scale. RIPA, in the UK, allow a list of agencies from the Food Standards Agency to MI6 to request communications data.

What actually changes with a 'digital' ID card?

 

 

[Roger Mexico]

4 hours ago, Cueey Lewis And The News said:

Why do you lot just cut and paste great slabs of this shite off the internet and think anyone who is not an anti vaxxing loon is going to read any of it? 

I'm not sure the anti-vaxxers even read it themselves, given how Ricardo published the Full Fact demolition of the Mullis 'quote' above assuming it justified their views.

[AcousticallyChallenged]

15 hours ago, ricardo said:

Neither am I theorizing about what Dr Kary Mullis, inventor of the PCR test said either - his almost exact words are below, as more or less confirmed by the dubious ‘Full fact’ Organisation. Your suggestion that his painstakingly created, and Nobel prize-winning, PCR test being ‘re-configured’ to test for ‘covid’ is, I’m afraid, utter bollocks. Or ‘tosh’ even.

He's not the first Nobel prize winner to go a bit cuckoo.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_disease

Nobel disease has its own article.

[ricardo]

20 minutes ago, AcousticallyChallenged said:

Do you have a smartphone? If so, you have a device covered in recording and monitoring ability, that, by its very existence and design, reports that back to a central location periodically. You can turn your data off, but it'll still happily chirp to let the tower know where to find it. Generally, they're filled with data harvesting tools, simply to be able to sell you things.

Never mind how much data your browser gives off when you visit a website. The Electronic Frontier Foundation have a handy little tool here to show you how many data points: https://coveryourtracks.eff.org/ Even TOR users can be found if they're interesting enough. One of the drivers behind this, again, is advertising.

The chip in the passports is very similar to the one in your bank card. It carries some data, including a copy of what's on the passport, and a digital signature, some of which you can read with the average smartphone. This isn't really some huge surprise.

Remember also that facial recognition tech already exists and can be used to great effect too. As technology improves, it gets ever cheaper and easier. The Met Police have been trialling it over the years, for example.

Also, remember what Snowden pointed out, the mass collection of citizens data on an enormous scale. RIPA, in the UK, allow a list of agencies from the Food Standards Agency to MI6 to request communications data.

What actually changes with a 'digital' ID card?

 

 

 

9 minutes ago, AcousticallyChallenged said:

He's not the first Nobel prize winner to go a bit cuckoo.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_disease

Nobel disease has its own article.

Re. phones etc, clearly what you say is true.

What changes with a digital ID is that all activity is able to be monitored and our access to services and products will be controlled. Ask any Chinese resident how that is working out.

Whether Kary Mullis was ‘cuckoo’ or not the PCR test was his creation and he knew it was not suitable for the detection of the supposed SARS virus. As did all governments.

If you guys wish to keep injecting yourselves with products feel free. And good luck.

💜

 

[AcousticallyChallenged]

Just now, ricardo said:

 

What changes with a digital ID is that all activity is able to be monitored and our access to services and products will be controlled. Ask any Chinese resident how that is working out.

That's already the case. Everything is monitored and correlated. Facebook were infamous years ago for working out where people without Facebook accounts fit in social circles, for example.

See RIPA 2016, as an example. See the Snowden leaks.

The only difference here is that private companies started it first, as it was a way to make more money.

Even back in the 80s, UK police forces had big computerised lists of subversives to keep an eye on, and in the run up to a war with the soviets, round up so they didn't interfere.

2 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Whether Kary Mullis was ‘cuckoo’ or not the PCR test was his creation and he knew it was not suitable for the detection of the supposed SARS virus. As did all governments.

He was long dead before the appearance of COVID. But, he designed a system that would take some DNA, and make lots of copies of it, to make it easier to look at.

What he didn't think, was that HIV had any bearing on AIDS. So the fact that his technique could detect HIV, in his eyes, was of no consequence in that matter. That's it.

I doubt the inventor of a magnifying glass had any concept of a circuit board, but you can use one to look at one of those.

I doubt the inventor of the wheel had any notion of it being attached to a Ferrari either, but, they do work pretty well together too.